I.—4a.

32

[ALFRED HOWORTH.

349. Then, it is slightly under half a crown a ton. How much do you sell this coal at in Dunedin?—ln Dunedin and district—just round about the town—from 11,000 to 11,500 tons per year. 350. I asked how much per ton do you get for it ?—lt is a complicated matter. We get 12s. a ton for the household coal; the other prices are cut very fine. We get Bs. a ton for the greater part of the coal. 351. You told me that the greater part of it was got at 7d. a box, which is 2s. 4d. a ton ?—Yes. 352. For that you get Bs. a ton ?—Yes. 353. How many tons a day does each of your men produce, do you consider—the men working at the face getting coal?—We get out, say, 40 tons a day. 354. For how many men ?—About twelve hewers. 355. That is about 3£ tons a day each ?—Something like that. 356. Does your mine come out on a free level or by a shaft?—From an inlet; the horses go straight in. 357. You have no winding-engine ?—No; we cannot use one. 358. How many boxes do the horses take out at a time?—We really work from two inlets. In one case the horse drags two boxes, and the other about ten ; it depends on the grade. 359. How much do you think it would add to your cost if the half-hour were taken off, as proposed in the Bill ? —On the basis of what I stated, that the hewing-rate would be raised also 360. I am not referring to the hewing-rate ; that is another question —one for the Arbitration Court ?—lt was in that light that I studied the subject. 361. What I want you to tell the Committee is whether, if you put another man to work at the face, you could not keep your output up to what it is at present without increasing the cost at all, though half an hour less per day were worked by the men ?—The difficulty is to get the stuff handled in the time with the horses. 362. How many horses do you keep working?—Four. 363. Do you not think that, if you put on another man who would produce 3£ tons of coal a day, the four horses could take out the 3-J- tons extra ? —They are very often driven to their utmost limit. 364. I am asking whether you think the horses could take out that 3|- tons extra so as to keep your output up to what it is at present ?—They might do it at an odd time, but I would not say they could continue it. 365. How long does it take one of your horses to make a trip to the face and back ? —We do not work them in that way ;we work them in stages. Each horse works on its own stage. 366. What is the distance from the face to the surface ?—-About 30 chains. 367. How many stages have you in the 30 chains ?—There is one main stopping-stage in the centre, where they meet; then there is an extra horse kept at each end, because there is uphill haulage at each end. 368. Do you think that a horse and driver could take out this 3£ tons in one extra trip a day ? —Not in a trip. 369. Supposing you kept this horse and driver an hour or half an hour longer to go there and back, do you think they could take out this 3| tons in that time ?—ln that case certainly, because it would bring it back to the basis you are working on. 370. Could they take the 3£ tons out in an hour?—Oh, yes. There are two drivers and two horses. 371. I mean one driver and one horse : could they do it in an hour?—lt is rather above the average per hour that we haul. 372. Three and a half tons ?—Yes. You are putting one man and one horse to do the work. You must remember that they have to work the 3-J tons through all the stages. 373. My contention is that by putting one more man on in your mine who would get 3J tons a day, keeping one horse and driver or two horses and two drivers for an hour extra would be all the additional cost that 3£ tons could possibly cost you, if the Bill became law ?—But you have got to keep other men. The stuff has got to be tipped into the railway-trucks. 374. Then, suppose you keep another man for an hour?—lt is all adding to the cost. 375. What I want to get at is what your additional cost would be in order to keep up your present output if the men's time were reduced by half an hour?—We would lose the time of all the men on day-wages, to begin with, to the extent of half an hour a day. The mine would be shut down that half-hour. We would lose that whole half-hour. 376. How do you yourself get paid—by the day?—l am a partner in the business. 377. But you are also manager?—Yes. 378. So that your time would not be lost ?—My business is in Dunedin itself. 379. What men would lose a part of their wages?—l stated that there were twenty men in our employ, and of these twelve or thirteen were coal-hewers. The rest are day-wages men. 380. That leaves six or seven ? —Yes. 381. What are those seven doing?—There is the manager, a tip-man, two horse-men, a roadman, a man for local sales and odd work, and another man on wages as well. 382. How do you pay the manager—by the day or by the week?—By the week. 383. So that you have to pay him whether he is at work or not ?—Yes. 384. Then, he can be taken out of the calculation. Now, there is the salesman : how do you pay him ?—By the week. 385. So that he also need not be considered. Then there are the two horse-men : how do you pay them ?—By the day. 386. If the men are idle they do not get paid ?—No.