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38. That is the opinion, I believe, of educationists ?—Yes, because a good many educationists require a lower standard of individual training than I should think desirable. 39. In such a school, striking the average between 65 and 75—say, 63 —would that be right ? — The average, as a matter of fact, taking the actual numbers in such schools in the colony, would be below 60. 40. We will say, suppose the average of such schools to be 60: the great majority of these schools are schools of two rooms, one in charge of a mistress, or first assistant, if you call her by that name : what proportion of the children would be under her charge—what proportion of the 60 in Standards 11. or I. ?—The practice differs in different districts ; some put Standard 11. under the master, and some under the mistress. " I should say that, generally speaking, if she has Standard 11. she has the majority. 41. Suppose she has the infants and Standards I. and 11. ? —She will generally have more than half. 42. A proportion of 33 ? —Yes, that would be a fair proportion. 43. And the headmaster will have how many ? —A little under 30. 44. Could you say 27 ?—Yes. 45. A headmaster in charge of 27 children from the Third Standard upward should manage them with great ease —greater ease than a teacher in charge of the whole of the classes, where there was an equal average of 27 ?—Yes. 46. Why should we introduce a mistress at 36 ? —You are assuming the same syllabus. 47. It was stated this morning there was a probability of lightening the syllabus?— Yes, for the smaller schools. 48. Looking at the scale of salary from 35 to 75, we find the headmaster gets a fixed salary ranging from £150 to £174 : what is the present salary for such schools in, say, Southland?— The present salary for such schools is £141 for 36, and £169 for 75. 49. In Otago in a school of from 50 to 75 what would be the headmaster's salary ?—From 51 to 75, £180. From £150 to £174 : the Otago scale is rather more there. 50. In your opinion, would it not be better to have the schools graded, say, 20 to 25, with a fixed salary, rather than any variation of capitation grant between 20 and 25 ?—That opens up a very big question. The whole question is as to whether you make the increments by jumps or gradually by capitation. The jump you make does not very much affect the possibility of drawing up a scale. As far as the scale is concerned, giving the teachers of schools between 20 and 35 an average salary of £135 has the same effect as giving them salaries varying from £120 to £150. I have the very highest respect for the teachers of the colony; but I think you must recognise the temptation there is when you get to the limit of 35 to make the number 36 —to stretch everything in order to get into the next class. Ido not think that a teacher would be so inclined to do that for the sake of a shilling a month as for, say, £15 or £20 a year; you must take the degree of temptation into account, and it has been found that that temptation really exists. Fortunately, I may say for the integrity of the teachers there is very seldom anything irregular found, yet I do not think it fair to put that temptation in the way of young teachers whose moral dispositions are not altogether developed. The difficulty is got over in some of the other colonies by the transfer of teachers when schools increase so as to pass into the next grade; but there are hardships connected with that too, such as the breaking-up of homes, and a good many teachers would rather go without an increase than break up their homes. After considering the question from all points of view, I think it is much better to have a capitation allowance. 51. Suppose we take a specific case, and say that the salary in a school of from 15 to 20 was £84 a year, or £7 a month, and in a school of from 21 to 25 £90 a year, or £7 10s. a month; do you think that the temptation of 10s. a month would be so great as to cause teachers to falsify their registers ?—I hardly think so; it is a question of degree ; but for a school of 20 to 25 you ought to give a salary of £125 at least. 52. If the gradation from group to group were not so great as you suggest the temptation would disappear ? —Yes. 53. Is it a fact that schools are graded in that fashion in most of the districts of the colony, and also in the Australian Colonies ? —ln several of the districts of the colony. 54. The great difficulty will be in formulating a scale of staff in the schools between 30 and 75, and the rock upon which this suggested scale will split will be probably in that connection. By having a little less liberal staff, instead of introducing a mistress at 36, let it be at 50 to 75, which is recognised to be a very easily worked school; and, according to the suggested scale, you would give a pupil-teacher as well as a mistress ? —No, that is from 75 to 100 ; I say, from psychological reasons it is utterly impossible to work satisfactorily a school with a sole teacher with an average attendance as high as 50. 55. Take those of 76 to 100 : what is the suggested salary for the headmaster under your scale ?—From £174 to £189. 56. And the mistress, or female assistant ?—The first female assistant £85. 57. What does the same female teacher receive in Otago at the present time?—To answer questions of that sort I should like to have the figures with me. 58. In the Otago scale of staff from 76 to 100 —that is, headmaster and mistress without pupilteacher —what do you consider would be saved yearly : I understand you propose to add to the present class a pupil-teacher? —Yes ; the amount would be £36. 59. If it is possible to do the work satisfactorily, that £36 might be divided between the headmaster and the mistress, and by increasing the salary of the headmaster you would induce teachers to enter the service and to remain there ?—My own opinion is very strongly against anything of the kind—of giving no help, as I said before, for psychological reasons; you may remove it from 35 to 40, but I hold that 35 is the highest number that should be given to a sole teacher on an ideal system of staffing.