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case of a teacher whose travelling-expenses amount each year to over £17, travelling to and from home twice a year. She was receiving £20 as the sole remuneration for teaching three children. Of course, she got board and lodging included. If she had been a cook she would have got £40. The question, then, is, if the Boards be not allowed anything not down in this scale, whether they should be allowed the power of requiring that the salaries in the case of aided schools should be made up to a certain minimum. If board and lodging were given, it might be counted as equivalent, say, to £30. If there were ten pupils at £5 a head, £50 capitation would be payable, and the board and lodging would bring the minimum salary practically up to the minimum I have set down in the scale—namely, £80. The endeavour would be to bring the salaries up to the minimum, whatever the minimum was made. The rest of the details deal with the distribution of masters and mistresses in schools. The number of masters shall never be more than the number of mistresses ; that is a condition which should be insisted upon. With regard to pupil-teachers, the Minister, in all new schemes of payment to pupil-teachers, has insisted on the equal payment of male and female pupil-teachers. My personal opinion is in favour of the equality of payment to pupil-teachers and to teachers up to what I would call the living-wage, and then I would differentiate between the salaries paid to male and female teachers. If a man" maintains three on an average besides himself, and a woman maintains on an average one and a half besides herself, it seems to me that the excess above the minimum salary in the case of the man should be twice that in the case of the woman —I mean the excess above the living-wage should be double in the case of the male. But, of course, I give this only as an expression of personal opinion, as the question of supply and demand largely enters into the question of salaries of men and women. There have been representations that women's salaries should be the same as men's. The tendency has been to. increase women's salaries. With regard to the average salaries for pupil-teachers, they are a little higher than they were before. There is a good deal to be said on both sides with regard to lowering the salaries of fifth-year pupil-teachers. In some districts in New Zealand they lower the salary in the fifth year, and in some they do not. It is very unsatisfactory that the practice should obtain of having a large number of ex-pupil-teachers, called temporary assistants, who are not fully qualified, or are not recognised as being worth the salaries of qualified assistants. I propose to withdraw the proposal to make a reduction for the fifth year, if there is any way of meeting the latter difficulty. 22. Mr. Mackenzie.] I may say that, in regard to the more important question of staffing, I intend to leave that question to Mr. Davidson ; but there is one question with regard to houseallowance. The question of the propriety of apportioning a part of the building vote for the purpose of paying rent is one which I hope the Commission will keep in view and embody in their report. I gather from you, Mr. Hogben, that you are agreeable that, instead of the allowance being used entirely for building purposes, an amount might be placed on the estimates for the_ purpose of allowing rentals — i.e., house-allowance in lieu of building—where no residence is provided ?—Yes ; I might say, practically, that, instead of giving what I will call the capital sum for the erection of the house, an annual sum for house-allowance might be given. 23. In reference to the expenses of Boards, do you think they ought to be fixed by Act— e.g., ought members' allowance and expenses to be fixed by Act ?—I think it would be more convenient for the Boards to fix the expenses. The circumstances vary very much. I think the Boards would be capable of drawing up suitable scales. 24. Mr. Davidson.] I should like to ask you, Mr. Hogben, is it a fact that out of the 1,645 schools in the colony, 1,408, or 87 per cent., are schools under 100: that is for the December quarter, 1899?— Yes. 25. Up to 150 I find 1,492 schools, or 90 per cent, of the total ?—Yes. 26. It follows, then, that if we prepare a satisfactory scale of staff for the schools in the colony at an average of 150 we should pretty well have broken the back of our task. What does the scale of staff allow to schools in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, or Queensland up to an average attendance of 50 ?—First of all one teacher, and then one teacher and pupilteacher. 27. In staffing in the Australian Colonies or in New Zealand is a mistress allowed, where there is an attendance of 36, in addition to the head-teacher ? —No, not at 36. 28. Mr. Weston.] What number?—4o. There are five Boards in New Zealand which begin with an assistant. 29. Mr. Davidson.] What would you give as the staffing in Otago, for instance, for schools between 30 and 50? —Otago gives an assistant at 51. 30. From 51 to 75 ?—Yes. 31. With regard to Southland? —Southland begins with a pupil-teacher. 32. Is it a fact that in Southland a certificated assistant to the head-teacher is not allowed until an attendance of 75 is reached ?—Yes, that is right. 33. 75 to 100?— Yes. 34. In Otago, I think I am right in saying, a certificated assistant is allowed at 51 to 75 ? —Yes. 35. Then, the Southland scale is not as liberal as that you suggest, as far as that class of school is concerned ?—No. I have no hesitation in saying that my proposal in regard to those schools is more liberal than is the usual practice. My opinion is very firm, and has been so for a good number of years, and is confirmed by that of a good many others with whom I have had conversation. 36. I wish to bring out this point very clearly: that Otago allows an assistant mistress at from 51 to 75—much earlier than Southland ? —Yes. 37. In Otago the schools of between 50 and 75, having two certificated teachers, are considered the easiest to manage of any grade of school in the education district: is that so?— Yes under the present conditions of the syllabus.