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though, perhaps, some of the large Boards could do so. The plan of paying on the average attendance for a year would work well for the colony as a whole. 19. Will the £4 capitation grant provide any elasticity to meet those requirements? —If you take the whole colony for a year it would reduce the irregularity to a minimum. In conclusion, although the addition of ss. to the capitation allowance would not enable the smaller Boards, and some of the larger Boards, as in Auckland—where there is a very large proportion of small schools —to raise their salaries to what may be regarded as reasonable rates, or to cope with other financial difficulties, it may be justly claimed that the proposed scheme enables the Government, with that addition, to improve the staffing of the schools ; to increase, generally speaking, the salaries of teachers ; and to give the Boards a balance available for their general expenses much larger than, after paying salaries and Committees' allowances, has been at their disposal before. Without urging that too closely to a logical conclusion, I think it is the general effect of the scheme. I should like to make one or two suggestions as to the points in the scheme. On page 5 the scale suggests to Boards that certain minimum certificates shall be required for certain positions. It does not interfere, or does not propose to interfere, with the Boards' discretion to engage a teacher with any certificate. It proposes to make reductions for certificates below the minimum certificates of 1 per cent, for each letter, 4 per cent, for each figure under the certificate. The letter of the certificate indicates literary attainment; the figure of the certificate indicates the marks for efficiency and length of service, the marks for efficiency being given by the Inspectors of Schools. The ranking differs from that given in. the regulations. An A 5 is held to be equal to an El, but this scale would not hold that. Those deductions amount altogether to about £10,000. In the total of salaries given in the summary on page 4 of the memorandum the deductions are already made. There would be an incitement to the teachers to improve their certificates, which might be a great advantage. The alternative to that is lowering the salaries all round, so as to give the same total deduction, about £10,000. To give a minimum salary for the teachers of all schools with less than 15 pupils would require £17,000. If the policy adopted in Marlborough and Nelson of establishing household schools and other small schools obtained throughout the colony the cost would be much greater. [Statement read by Mr. Hogben as follows :] Schools with less than IS in Average Attendance. The scale proposes to give £5 capitation for all schools under 15; Committees might be required to make up the salary of the teacher to a minimum of £60 for an uncertificated teacher, or £75 for a certificated teacher. Ido not think that the minimum salary for teachers should be less than that named. It would need a capitation of £6 to give the minimum salary for an uncertificated teacher with an average attendance of 10. Even £6 a head would not give the minimum salary for schools of less than 10. In December, 1899, the total numbers of schools under 10 and of schools 10 to 14 in average attendance were respectively 113 and 138, as follows :— Under 10. 10 to 14. Auckland ... ... ... ... ... ... 8 33 Taranaki ... ... ... ... ... ... 2 5 Wanganui ... ... ... ... ... ... 1 7 Wellington ... ... ... ... ... ... 14 12 Hawke's Bay ... ... -.- ... ... ... 2 7 Marlborough ... ... ... ... ... ... 36 5 Nelson ... ... .. ... ... ... 24 12 Grey ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 5 3 Westland ... ... ... ... ... ... 10 6 North Canterbury ... . . ... ... ... 4 15 South Canterbury ... ... ... ... ... 2 2 Otago ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 5 21 Southland ... ... ... ... ... ... 2 10 The total number of pupils schools under 10 was 694, and from 10 to 14 was 1,661. I do not think that it is possible to provide satisfactorily for schools of less than 12 without requiring contributions in money or board and lodging for the teacher from the local Committee. To provide the minimum salaries for all schools under 15 would require about £17,000, or £4,230 above the amount of the capitation under the proposed scale (£11,770). That assumes the number to remain as it is at present; but I w-ould point out that in very many cases the teachers of the small schools, called in some districts household schools, are in reality family governesses, and a policy of paying their salaries would almost certainly lead to a great increase in the number of such household schools. I am sure that this danger is not an imaginary one. If the policy adopted in Marlborough and Nelson were general throughout the colony there would be as many of such schools as there are of all other schools put together, and the cost would be £70,000 or £80,000 a year for these small schools alone. Even the payment of capitation would encourage the multiplication of small schools. It would be found necessary in time to fix a limit below which schools should not be recognised as entitled to Government aid. I think wiser to fix that limit now. The condition that Committees or parents should contribute provides a natural safeguard against the undue multiplication of small schools. I suggest, therefore, that if it is thought that capitation should be given to schools with less than 12 the Committees or parents should be required, by contributions or otherwise, to make up the amount of capitation to the minimum salary. 20. What is the minimum for aided schools in Marlborough?—There is no minimum. 21. The That applies to Marlborough and Nelson?— Yes. The power can be given to Boards by legislation to require that the minimum salary shall be paid. Within my knowledge there have been cases that I cannot describe as anything less than " sweating." I know of the

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