I.—lα.

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33. Were you present at the turning of the first sod of the railway ?—Yes, I was. 34. Do you remember on that occasion any chiefs making terms that if liquor was not kept out of the King-country the railway would not be allowed to go through ?—No. I may say that I never saw the petition just referred to myself; that is hearsay evidence of mine, but lam morally certain it is correct. 35. You would not be surprised to hear that there was really three prohibitions—viz., against the sale of liquor, and the sale or leasing of lands ?—I did not know that was so. 36. Do you remember being at Otorohanga when Mr. Cadman, Native Minister, was there?— No ; I cannot say I do. i 37. But you were present on that occasion ?—No, I do not think so. 38. From conversations you have had with the Natives, and with European residents in the King-country, are you satisfied that they are desirous of having the power to decide whether they shall have licenses ? —Most decidedly they are desirous of having that power. 39. They are not pressing so much for the establishment of licenses or licensed houses as for the power to say whether or not they shall have licenses ? —That is all they desire, the power to decide for themselves. 40. Do you think it is fair to compare the Maori even inferentially to a low type of negro?— No; they are far superior in intelligence and in ability. 41. From your thorough knowledge of the country, and of the Natives themselves, would you be satisfied to give them the power to say whether the existing restrictions, as to the sale of liquor, should be removed? —Yes ; I would give them that power to-morrow, if I had the opportunity, as I believe it would be far more satisfactory. 42. You know the settlement of Whatiwhatihoe ? —Yes. 43. How far is it from Alexandra ? —About a mile, I should think. 44. That is a pretty large settlement ?—lt used to be. 45. During the time the Natives lived there they could have easy access to the hotel?— Yes. 46. And yet that caused no intemperance?— None whatever, except, perhaps, individual instances of Natives who would have drink at any cost, and would have got it elsewhere. Ido not think that the Natives living so close to the two or three hotels indulged in excessive drinking. 47. Do you think it will be very long before the King-country is settled with European population ? —The Europeans are getting there very quickly. It is only a matter of surveying, when that country will be practically all settled. 48. You are quite satisfied that the allegations as to drunkenness and immorality are highly coloured and exaggerated ?—I am perfectly certain of that. 49. Mr. Lang.] I think, Mr. Hursthouse, you know the boundaries of the Waikato electorate ? —Yes. 50. The question I wish to ask has reference only to the Waikato electorate. As you probably know, there is one portion of it in which licenses are granted, and another portion where they are not. Now, I want to get at the population of Natives in these two separate portions of the electorate ?—I should not think there are more than about two thousand in that part of the electorate known as the King-country. The European settlers would not, I suppose, be more than one thousand altogether. 51. Can you give a rough idea of the number of Natives settled in the licensed or northern portion of the Waikato electorate?—l do not know. I know very little as to that, but think they are more numerous. 52. As far as sly-grog selling is concerned, it is true there is a certain amount of that ?—Yes. 53. Have you ever known of any case of sly-grog sailing where licenses exist ?—No, I have never known of any in that part of the district. 54. But in the King-country sly-grog selling is carried on to a large extent ?—Yes. 55. Mr. Laivry.] Do you know Tokaanu ? —Yes. 56. A considerable number of Natives have either settled or visit there ?—Yes. 57. Do you remember visiting Tokaanu with the Hon. Mr. Cadman and myself?— Yes, I think we stopped there from Saturday until Monday. 58. There were a large number of Natives assembled ?—Yes. 59. And all had access to the hotel?— Yes. 60. Did you see a single case of drunkenness and immorality ? —I did not. I may add that I have been often at Tokaanu since then, and I have never noticed anything to complain of as regards wine and women. 61. The house there is conducted as well as those outside the King-country?— Yes. 62. Did you know Wahanui?—Yes. 63. Did you see him at any time shortly before his death ?—Yes, six or seven months before. 64. Would you say he had all his mental faculties about him at that time ? —No; he was " cranky." He was " cranky "on some things, at any rate. I can give you an example of this, if you think it worth while. In my travels I had to pass the place where Wahanui was living, or rather camped, and on one occasion he sent word asking me to call and see him. I went, and when I got to the tent door he asked me inside. We shook hands, and a woman brought in some tea and bread. I said, " I did not come to eat; I came to speak to you because you sent for me." Wahanui then said, " Well, your friend Jesus Christ is dead, so you will have to eat." I do not think any sane man, for instance, would have said that. He told me that everything was settled now as regards " peace," and I was to tell all men who were sore-footed and hard-up that they were to call at his place and he would entertain them, but they must behave properly or he would not have them. In this conversation Wahanui used some most extraordinary words, which I had never heard before, and his wife and a friend of his said " That means so-and-so." He invented words. He would not call things by their proper names. Then he asked for a contract on the road, which was not to exceed £10. He impressed upon me principally that I was to send all the " hard-ups "to him, and he would give them food. He was decidedly off his head.