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56. Are you aware that the chief objection of the two great chiefs of the time, Wahanui and Rewi, was because of these orgies that took place at the Land Court ?—That was their chief objection. 57. Are you aware that the first petition contained reference to anything except liquor?— The first petition did, certainly. 58. What ?—Well, there were a lot of things down in the first petition with regard to the land. The same petition, asking for prohibition, also contained conditions that their land should be neither leased nor sold. 59. The first petition did ?—Yes; but I do not know that the second petition did. 60. Would you like to see the petitions?— Yes; I would like to see them. Mr. Lawry : Perhaps they had better be put in, Mr. Chairman. 61. Mr. Lawry, .] You are quite sure that one of the petitions contained the two important conditions that the land should never be sold or leased ?—Yes. 62. Do you think that it is right that the Prohibitionists should agitate over the liquor question and not on the land question ? —Well, you do not accept my statement that the second, or prohibition, petition contained nothing about the land. 63. Were you at Otorohanga when Mr. Cadman, as Native Minister, made a statement to the Natives ?—I do not remember. 64. Do you not remember chat you had charge of the telegraph department, and telegraphed the speech away?—l have no recollection of it. 65. Well, I know you did, because I handed it to you myself. Are you aware that Mr. Cadman promised to remove the embargo ? —Yes ; it is coming back to me now. 66. Was Wahanui present at that meeting ?—Yes ; he was almost sure to be. 67. What was the date of that meeting? —It would be about March, 1896. 68. Are you aware that at that meeting Wahanui stated publicly that the Natives themselves had made a mistake in asking for prohibition in the King-country ? —No ; I do not recollect it. 69. You have already stated that the Native rape is in favour of removing this embargo. Was it right to say whether they should have it ?—Yes, and they would vote for it. 70. Are you aware that Mr. Cadman and myself, together with Mr. Wilkinson, called on Eewi at his private residence, and that he indorsed everything that had been done and said at that meeting, it was so important ? —I have no personal knowledge of it. 71. Had the Natives a right to petition when they did?— Certainly they had. 72. Well, where is the difference the one from the other?—We are in the position of guardians to the Native race, or ought to be. 73. You think they have the right to ask for a vote on this subject and no right to ask for the removal of prohibition ; you cannot grant it in one case and not in the other ?—They have a right to ask for its removal. 74. Do you know what the frontier-line is—the length of it?— No. 75. The whole length of the frontier that includes the prohibition area? —I do not know the southern boundary ; I know the northern boundary. 76. Say, for the sake of argument, that it goes nearly as far as Karioi? —I think it is to the east of Karioi. 77. Do you think that it is three hundred miles?— Yes, it is getting on that way. 78. What effect do you think three policemen would have in keeping liquor out of that area ? — I thought we were speaking of the King-country : there are more policemen than three in that area. 79. In your opinion, it would be an impossibility for the law to keep liquor out of the Kingcountry ?—lt would help the police very considerably if no liquor was allowed to be brought in. 80. What effect are the fines having ?—An unsatisfactory effect; in some cases most effective and in other cases no effect at all. 81. Some of the big men can stand it ?—Yes. 82. The fines are not greater in amount than licenses would be?—No; that was the objection. There would be a raid, and then no raid for a year or more afterwards; it is just the same as a license-fee. 83. What would be the difference if the Magistrates had power to imprison instead of fining ? —I suppose it would affect some of them more, and would drive the trade into the hands of a lower class. 84. You are well acquainted with Mr. Wilkinson, Native Interpreter?— Yes. 85. Do you know what his opinion is on this question ?—I believe it is in favour of the introduction of liquor into the King-country. 86. He is in a position to know ? —Yes. 87. He has a large acquaintanceship with the Native race? —Yes, at Otorohanga. 88. You have an estate near Awakino ?—Yes. 89. Do you know John Elliott ? —Yes. 90. He is a Justice of the Peace ?—Yes. 91. Do you know what his opinions are ?—I should say in favour of liquor being introduced. 92. What is your opinion of the wishes of the Awakino settlers as a whole ?—I do not know exactly. I expect a majority of them are in favour of liquor, but we have little settled population. Awakino is a little outside of the King-country. 93. Did I understand you to say that if liquor was prohibited—that is, if the admission of liquor was absolutely prohibited—there would be nothing to prevent the Natives living on the margins of the prohibited lands from going to Cambridge ?—Nothing whatever. 94. Then, would you go so far as to support a law to shut up these hotels on the boundarylines? —The law already provides for it, if the people are in favour of it.