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62. Do you see people in the King-country the worse for drink ?—Yes. 63. There is a good deal of sly-grog selling there? —Yes; but it is not so much the quantity of drink as the bad spirits which are sold. The stuff drives the drinkers nearly mad. 64. This is in both races. Is one race as bad as the other ? —Yes. 65. Mr. Hall.] Is it your opinion that this desire for the granting of licenses within the Kingcountry comes from the Natives themselves ?—Yes, I think so. 66. Have you heard any of them express their opinion why ?—Well, they say it would tend to put down sly-grog selling. 67. Do they look upon this as a benefit to themselves or to Europeans as well ?—lt is thought that licenses would be to the general good —to Europeans as well as to Natives. 68. But the desire has come on account of the demoralising effect of the present state of affairs on the Natives themselves ? —The head chiefs in the King-country see that their tribes are drinking now, and they are of opinion that licenses will be a means of lessening the evil. 69. The chiefs would rather that liquor was purchased outside their own country than in it. Is that the position ?—Yes. 70. Are there any boarding-houses in the King-country ?—Yes, at Te Kuiti and at Otorohanga. 71. Are hotels required for accommodation? —Yes. 72. You think more accommodation-houses are required?— Yes. 73. Is it your opinion that licensed hotels would give better accommodation ?—Yes, they would be then under police control, and that would be something of an advantage. 74. Is it your opinion that the present agitation comes from a want of accommodation-houses or from the want of drink in the King-country ?—There is a desire for licenses as a means of getting rid of sly-grog selling. The sly-grog selling has given rise to a demand for a change from the present state of affairs. 75. From your experience of the Natives or from conversations with them, do you think they would be willing to vote on thequestion of license or no license in conjunction with the Europeans or separately?—l believe they would prefer to vote in conjunction with the Europeans. 76. And it is your sincere belief that the granting of licenses in the King-country would lessen the drinking evil. Is that so ? —Yes. 77. Mr. Rhodes.] You are satisfied that the majority in the King-country do wish for licenses ? —Yes. 78. Mr. Hall.] Is it within your knowledge that large quantities of liquor come from Auckland into the King-country ?—Yes, I have seen it coming through in packing-cases. 79. Mr. Rhodes.] It is liquor of a very inferior quality? —Yes. 80. Mr. Lawry.] Is it true that travellers have been refused accommodation in the accommoda-tion-houses at Te Kuiti and at Otorohanga?—Yes, because there were suspicions that they were spies. 81. And has prohibition in the King-country been the means of creating spies ?—Yes. 82. You are certain ?—Yes. 83. Mr. Rhodes.] If the Natives thought that the police could prevent sly-grog selling, then, do you think they would still wish to have licenses ?—The Natives know very well that it is impossible to prevent it. 84. It is merely that the liquor should be brought under some control that they desire to have licenses ?—Yes. 85. Mr Lang.] I understood you to.say that you had had about twenty years' experience in the King-country ?—Yes. 86. You are a Justice of the Peace, are you not ?—Yes. 87. I want to know whether there was any move on the part of the inhabitants of the King-country in opposition to allowing the Natives a right to vote on the license question ?— I have not heard of any move against it. 88. You know the boundaries of the district well ?—Yes. 89. You consider it impossible to prevent liquor being taken into the district ? —lt is, as I have said, quite impossible. 90. Could, you give the Committee any idea of the number of miles that the boundary of the King-country would extend to ? —I should say about a hundred miles. 91. And sly-grog selling is going on to a very large extent, even at the present time?— Yes. 92. You know the portion of the Waikato electorate that now has licenses ?—Yes. 93. Do you remember a case of sly-grog selling in that part ?—No. 94. You spoke of a place named Whatiwhatihoe, near Alexandra (about three miles away), and you told us that there was a licensed house at Alexandra. Now, are the Natives at Whatiwhatihoe inclined to drink because of the nearness of a licensed house ? What is their condition there ?—They are not more inclined to drink. You seldom see much drinking there. 95. They are not in a worse position on account of the nearness of a licensed house to their settlement?— No. 96. The Chairman.] Do you mean that a hundred miles is the whole extent of the borderline of the King-country, in answer to the question put by Mr. Lang just now ?—I meant that a hundred miles was the extent of the interior boundary, not the coastal boundary. 97. It would be nearer four times a hundred if you take the whole area of the prohibited country ?—Oh, yes ; it would be more like three hundred miles. 98. The position seems to be this: It is not so much that the Natives are asking for licenses, but rather that, having tried prohibition, in their opinion it has not answered, and hence they desire some change. They find that drinking this vile stuff has got to such a rampant stage that a change is very desirable. Is not that the case ?—Yes ; they want some alteration.

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