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23. Both Natives and Europeans combine in the sly-grog selling. Ts that so?— Yes. 24. Mr. Lawry.] Were you present at the ceremony of turning the first sod of the railway in the King-country ?—I was not there on that occasion. 25. Have you any knowledge of a promise made or implied then to the Natives that it was an advantage to them that the railway should run through their country ?—No. 26. Has there been any land sold or leased in the King-country since that occasion? —Yes, about 60,000 acres. 27. And now the European population there is very largely on the increase?— Yes. There are about four hundred men now working on the land recently taken up, and in about six months time there will be another 60,000 acres thrown open for settlement. 28. Is the feeling in the King-country in favour of direct legislation on the question of liquor, or is it in favour of giving the Natives the right to decide for themselves as to license or otherwise ? —I think the feeling is that they should have the same privileges as others. 29. You mean that they should have the right to vote on the question ? —That they should have the right to decide for themselves whether they should have licenses or not. 30. Taking into consideration the immense frontier-line of the King-country, how many police do you think it would take to keep down the sly-grog selling? —I do not think all the police in New Zealand could stop it. 31. You yourself are certain that under licenses the evil would be much less than at present, and you think that that is the opinion also of the people generally in the King-country ?—Yes, and I may say that the head chiefs, who do not drink, think the same on that point. 32. Would you consider the opinion of five thousand people in Dunedin of any value in regard to this question ?—Well, I do not see what they could possibly know about it. It is only the people who reside in or travel through the country who know anything of the state of affairs there. 33. You said there was a licensed house at Tokaanu ? —Yes. 34. Have you ever been to Tokaanu ?—Yes. 35. Have you ever seen any drunkenness there ?—Very little, except during the sittings of the Land Court. In the Taupo district you cannot get the drink so easily. 36. Are you acquainted with Chief Te Heu Heu? —Yes. 37. Is the man Blake at Tokaanu a half-caste?—No, he is a European. 38. The house at Tokaanu is frequented both by Natives and by tourists?— Yes. 39. Do you think there is any more drunkenness at Tokaanu than there is in the King-country ? —I think there is less. 40. And that fact impresses you in favour of licensed houses. Is that so ?—Yes, it certainly does. 41. Mr. B. McKenzie.] You consider that licenses will benefit both Natives and Europeans?— It is better to have licenses, unless you can keep the drink away altogether. 42. Do you think there are illicit stills at work in the King-country? —No, they can take the drink up into the country on pack-horses from Alexandra or from Kihikihi. 43. You consider it impossible for the police to stop the sly-grog selling which goes on ?—I say it is quite impossible. 44. Do the police ever get convictions? —Oh, yes. 1 think at the last raid some fines were imposed of from £15 to £50. 45. You never saw Natives drinking in their own settlements, I think you said?—l said they are temperate in their own settlements. 46. The Natives do not go far from home, do they?— Yes, they do: they sometimes travel right through the district from one settlement to another. 47. What are the occasions they mostly give way to drink; is it at times of deaths or feasts ?— It is chiefly when they are gathered together on the occasions of the Land Court sittings. 48. How often does the Land Court sit? —I think about once a year. The sitting lasts sometimes for some months. 49. You say there were four hundred men (Europeans) working in the bush : What work were they doing ? —Felling the bush and road-making. 50. Those men are not permanent settlers ? —No. 51. Do you think that, if the Natives were given the right of referendum, they would support the granting of licenses ?—Yes. 52. And Europeans would do the same ?—Yes. 53. You think that licenses would be carried there?— Yes; the Natives are anxious for licenses to be granted as a means of doing away with the sly-grog selling as it is now carried on. 54. Do you think if there were more police they could keep down the sly-grog selling ? —No, I am sure they could not. 55. Would not a stricter enforcement of the law put a stop to the evil?— Well, all I can say is there were about fifty convictions last year, and still sly-grog selling goes on. 56. Is it the Natives who carry on the sly-grog selling? —Yes, and the Europeans too. 57. Mr. Colvin.] If there is no illicit distillery, how do you account for the stuff selling at 7s. 6d. per gallon?—lt is supplied from Auckland. 58. Well, this Auckland must be a very bad place. At any rate, are you in favour of temperance yourself?— Yes, and at one time I was not in favour of licenses in the King-country ; but now I think it would be an advantage to have them. 59. The liquor should be sold under proper control ?—Yes, I am of that opinion. 60. Mr. B. McKenzie.'] Are you a member of any temperance society or association ? — No. 61. Mr. Thompson.] I understand you to say that there is a good deal of drinking in the King-country: is that among both the races, or is the one race worse than the other?—l consider the Natives there generally very temperate.

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