71

E.—-3b

71. You mentioned vegetables of various sorts other than potatoes which went into the stew. Has that always been so ?—Yes, that has always been. 72. On the day of the visit of the Board there was no sign of anything but potatoes in the stew ?—I was away then. 73. You told us that you bought half a ton of honey. Was that since the Board was there ? —No; it was bought in March. I have bought honey before, but not so much at a time. 74. You tell us that in winter the boys wear jerseys over their shirts. Was that a rule before the Board went up ?—lt was. 75. How many pairs of socks did the boys have at one time ?—The Sunday stockings and one pair for week-days. 76. You have told us that your savings have been £523 for two years. Is there not something wrong about that ?—lt was roughly calculated. The Brother who was making out the list was sleepy when he did it. He was falling asleep over the book. 77. You told us there was £523 in the savings-bank ?—Yes ; there is no more than that. 78. If the food or clothing were short, you had money to buy more ?—We keep this money for emergencies. If I had assumed that more food or clothing was required it could have been obtained. 79. Six hundred sheep, you say, were killed during the two years ? —Yes; it was a hurried calculation. 80. The sum of £89 is set down as for meat bought. Was that for the boys?— Principally. The Brothers had very little. 81. Did you supply the convent at Nelson with any produce ?—No. 82. Where are the boys' everyday clothes obtained?— Generally from the Sunday clothes after they get dingy. 83. Is any corduroy used ?—Only a small quantity. 84. Have you received gifts of old clothes for the boys?— No. 85. How long has thrashing on the naked body been abandoned?— Between six and seven years. 86. Have any boys been put in chains during the last two years —that is, chained with a shackle round each leg ?—No. 87. How long is it since that practice has been abandoned ?—That took place about five years ago. It has been abandoned. 88. You told us that Brother Kilian was likely to go. Is Brother Wibertus likely to be removed also ?—The question has not yet been considered. 88a. Do you think that he should go ?—I cannot say. I shall consult the Manager. 89. Mr. Fell.] I understand you to say that when Dean Mahoney speaks as Manager you have not the liberty to disobey his instructions ?—None whatever. 90. I believe that the convention between the brotherhood and the trustees of the estate contains a direct condition that your control shall be subject to the laws of this country, and that wherever your rules may conflict with the laws the rules have to give way ?—Yes. 91. In reference to Mr. Thompson, it is stated that on one occasion he had a conversation with you regarding solitary confinement and that you denied that it was in force at your school. You do not remember that conversation. Suppose he had asked you, what would have been your answer?—l would have told him what was taking place. 92. Did you consider at that time that the punishment to which the boys were subjected was " solitary " confinement ?—I never realised it until all this commotion came about. 93. Suppose you had been asked some months ago what was solitary confinement, what would you have understood it to mean?— Confinement in cells in which there was no light and which afforded no communication with the outer world. 94. As to the conversation which Sir Edward Gibbes is said to have had with you regarding corporal punishment, supposing he had spoken to you on the subject, what would you have understood him to have meant by the term ?—Punishment on the bare skin. 95. At that time had that form of corporal punishment been abolished at your school ?— Yes, it had. 96. In reference to the baths, you consider it desirable that the boys should have a warm bath in the week ?—Yes. 97. With reference to the poverty to which the brotherhood is vowed, you are not sworn to poor living and poor clothes ? It only debars you from acquiring wealth or disposing of it ?—No, we are not only permitted, but enjoined to live as others. 98. The matter of boys in chains has been spoken of. That was done some years ago. What was the reason ? —Two boys could not be kept at school, and they would defy me. It was a light chain—gyves, well padded. One of the boys contrived to slip the chain three times. 99. Mr. Hogben.] You have said that you thought solitary confinement meant confinement in a dark room ?—Yes in a dark cell, like those they have in jails. 100. You have ceased to give punishment on the body. Did you receive instructions from the Department to this effect ?—No ; we received them from the Superior-General of the order. 101. Were they given to you through the Manager?— No. Albxandbb Geoves Duff, examined on oath. 102. Mr. Fell.] You are a duly qualified medical practitioner, and were for many years medical attendant at the Stoke Orphanage ?—Yes ; from the opening of the institution till the end of 1896, some time after Brother Loetus took charge. 103. Were you aware that mustard-and-water, followed by castor-oil, was a common remedy for small ailments at the school ? —Certainly ; Brother Loetus consulted me about it. It is a good