65

E.—3b

100. To whom do you consider yourself responsible for the management of the school ?—ln certain respects to Dean Mahoney. In reference to the staff, I am responsible to the Brother Provincial at Sydney. 101. With regard to the discipline and management of the school ?—I am responsible for that. If I did not consider myself competent it would be my duty to ask to be relieved. 102. There are very few positions in which a man has not some one above him. To whom do you consider yourself responsible ?—To the Brother Provincial. If I were to propose to flog boys, or if there was anything wrong, he would naturally remonstrate. 103. Mr. Fell.] Did you consider it your duty, and did you report the system of solitary confinement to Dean Mahoney?—He not being responsible for the order and discipline in the school, I did not consider myself at all bound to report it to him, and I did not do so. 104. Mr Harley.] Has Dean Mahoney any power to remove you from your position ?—He has not; but to a certain extent my superiors would have regard to any requests made by him. The Brother Provincial has power to remove me or any of the Brothers. 105. Has no one in New Zealand any control over you ?—No; except the Government Inspector, who pays an annual visit in regard to the school work. No one in New Zealand has any real right to interfere with the internal management of the school, but I would accept suggestions. 106. How often does the Brother Provincial visit you here?—-Twice a year. 107. Have you no power to remove the other Brothers?—l have not. If one wishes to be removed, I forward the reasons to the Superior, and if he sees fit he removes him. 108. Dean Mahoney is Manager under the Industrial Schools Act: what part of the management has he ?—He has the transactions with the Education Department, and receives the money, which is the principal thing. 109. Does he hand the money over to you ?—Yes. 110. How does he know what becomes of it ? —He can see for himself. 111. Have you a bank account in your name ?—Yes. Dean Mahoney pays me by cheque, and I draw on my account in the same way. 112. Do you render any account to Dean Mahoney as to how the money is expended?—No; he gives us full control over the finances. 113. How about the boys who are. licensed out ?—Dean Mahoney attends to that. After the boys leave I have no more to do with them, except when they are sent back. When they are licensed out Dean Mahoney receives their money and notifies the Government. 114. Who returns the particulars of deaths, if any ?—I report to Dean Mahoney, and he to the Government. 115. What do you do with the profits after paying expenses ?—lt is banked for emergencies, such as interest, and, if possible, paying off a portion of the debt on the estate, which is £5,000. 116. To whom does the property belong when the debt is paid ?—To the archdiocese. 117. Mr. WardCll.] It does not belong to the Order ?—No. 118. Mr. Harley.] What is the property valued at now?—l should say about £10,000, including the building. 119. Will you tell us about the confinement in the cells, and what other punishment the boys received when there ?—For a few days they received four to six slaps on the hand once a day. It all depended on the circumstances of the offence. It might have been two or three days, or even four days ; but it would not go beyond four. 120. I understand you have only one small bath on the premises ?—Yes; one in the lavatory. 121. Then, there are not sufficient bathing appliances?—No; but we are determined to have them. 122. Brother Kilian pulled down the upper cell, and the boards off the lower cell. You stated that this was done in deference to the wishes of the Charitable Aid Board ?—Yes. 123. The Board did not express any desire that they should be pulled down?— Well, they did. 124. Did they in so many words ? —Yes ; when I met Mr. Eout he told me he had heard of certain methods of punishment, and said that if it could be arranged among ourselves he did not intend to give publicity to it. Mr. Eout also, as the visitors were leaving the room, expressed his admiration of the institution, and said that " everything was tip-top, except one blot." 125. Mr. Wardell.] Did any of the members ask you to pull the cells down ?—Not precisely, but in a courteous way they expressed disapproval of the practice. I took that as a request. If we had not pulled them down, that might have been taken as showing we were headstrong and did not wish to abide by the Board's desire. 126. Mr. Harley.] Did Dean Mahoney tell you that you must remove the cells ?—No. 127. Mr. Bush.] Did he know they were there ?—I do not think he did. 128. Mr. Harley.] How long had the cell been under the tower ?—Eighteen months or two years. The other one was always there. 129. Well, then, if Dean Mahoney did not know of the cell downstairs, he could not have inspected the room well?—He knew it as a room, but never suspected its use for that mode of punishment. He knew this as part of the building, and he also knew of the room under the tower. v 130. You have stated that you do not approve of some of Brother Kilian , s actions : were you aware that Brother Wibertus was severe on some of the boys'?—He is not severe now. When he had the same position as Brother Kilian he used to be severe sometimes, because he had need for it. 131. Did you remove Brother Wibertus from that position?— The band came into existence about that time, and thus more of his time was taken up, The prefect is never liked by the boys. 132. The boys have dripping, or suet melted down ?—Yes. It is generally fat from sheep, or ether suet. 9—E. 3b.