66

E.—3b

133. How is it melted down?—lt is put into the oven, and pepper and salt put into it. 134. That would only be simple tallow. There is a difference between dripping and tallow? —Yes ; properly so called. 135 Mr. Wardell.) What fat do you use ? —The kidney and other surplus fat. 136. Turning to your list of expenditure, I find that £50 is set down for groceries : can you give me some of the items?— Yes; sugar, tea, coffee, spices, salt, honey, &o. We bought half a, ton of honey for £11. ' 137. Mr. Eogben.] When you stated you were director of this school you referred to your position in the Marist Order? —Yes. 138. You have no legal or official position ?—No. 139. Has Dean Mahoney any legal authority over you ?—No; he is the Manager of the 140. Supposing the Department asked the Manager for a return of boys in the school, could you refuse to allow Dean Mahoney to count them ?—We could not refuse that. This would not be a matter of discipline or order. _ <-~.. ~ 141. Supposing, under instructions left by Mr. Pope under my directions last Christmas that a return of any change of status of inmates should be made at the end of each month, Dean Mahoney were to ask you for a return in detail of the boys in the school, could you refuse to furnish him with those particulars?—l could not. 142. Supposing the Department or the Government (not that it intended doing anything of the kind, of course) ordered a change of diet, or you understood that the Government wished a change of diet to be made, could you refuse to make it, even if you had the means?—l would not refuse it. , . 143. Do you think that you could refuse ? Supposing Dean Mahoney told you that it was a request from the Government, do you think that your position is such that you could refuse to carry it out?—l could refuse it, but I would not. 144. Supposing Dean Mahoney of his own motion were to think that the diet might _be improved, and if he were to ask you in his official position as Manager to alter the diet, do you think that you have power to refuse to do it ?—lf he would prove the necessity for the change, of course I would abide by his suggestion. 145. Supposing it did not comply with your own judgment, and Dean Mahoney as Manager asked you to do it ? —I think I would do so. 146. Would you feel bound to do it ?—I would not feel myself bound to do it, but through courtesy and reverence for his position I think I would do it. 147. Supposing the Government asked Dean Mahoney to adopt regulations for the teaching of some given subject in the school, and Dean Mahoney as Manager directed you to do it, would you feel bound to carry out that request ?—Yes; I would feel bound to do it. 148. Supposing some directions in regard to punishments came to Dean Mahoney from the Department, would you feel bound to carry out such a request? —Yes, I would. 149. Supposing it came from Dean Mahoney himself as Manager ?—lt would depend upon the nature of the request. 150. Would you feel bound, if a request came from Dean Mahoney as Manager, to adopt any specific code of punishment? —No, I would not, unless coming from the Government depart--151. Supposing that Dean Mahoney, as Manager, asked you to give all the boys singlets, would you feel bound to do it ?—I would, in one way, and I would do it. I do not say I would feel bound to do it as a duty. 152. Supposing it did not agree with your judgment to give the boys singlets—or supposing he requested you, as Manager, to supply some article which you thought unnecessary, would you feel bound to supply it ?—(Question not answered.) 153. Supposing that Dean Mahoney, acting as legal Manager, asked you, as a Government official, to do something in connection with the internal discipline of the school, would you feel bound to do that ?—I cannot well answer that. 154. Mr. Fell.] Supposing Dean Mahoney ordered you, as representing the Government, to abolish cells, would he be obeyed?—Oh, yes—if directed by the Department to do such a thing I would. 155. Mr. Bush.] Supposing Dean Mahoney came to you and said, "Do this thing," and you said, "Have you any instructions from the Government?" and he said " No," would you do it ? — I would do it through courtesy. Edwabd John Roberts, examined on oath. 156. Mr. Fell.] You are a duly qualified medical practitioner, and medical attendant to the Stoke Industrial School? —Yes; I am not a salaried officer, but am paid for my services when called in. .-,,,.'' " 157. You are thoroughly acquainted with both the Brothers and the inmates, and the working of the concern?— Yes ;lam in the habit of visiting there frequently. 158. Has there been much sickness there during the last two years? —No; there have only been trifling ailments, and, considering the number of boys, and the class from which they come, 1 consider they are remarkably healthy. 159. Are the boys well nourished and well developed ?—Yes; as far as I saw. 160. Have you observed any signs of the results of insufficient clothing, or poverty, or insufficiency of food? —Not in the boys that came under my notice. I attend the Orphanage as I would a private family. I could not find any fault with the food or clothing.