27

G.—2

ever since execution of the lease. You have paid the rent to me. None of Muaupoko have made any demand upon me for a share of the rents. I have received £300 from Peter Bartholomew for the right to cut timber on No. 14, east of the railway. No Muaupoko has ever made any application to me for any part of that money. The leases were made openly and the money paid. The Muaupoko knew all about it. I have sold parts of No. 14 to you, 4 acres in one place, and about 8 acres in another place; both these areas were cut off from my estate. The consideration I received from you was £110. None of the Muaupoko have asked me for any of the money, not even Eaniera. Mr. Edwards acted for me in the Supreme Court case at Wanganui. I mortgaged No. 14 to you for £500, to enable me to pay Mr. Edwards. I appeared before the Trust Commissioner in Wanganui to explain what I had done. Mr. Garland Woon interpreted the mortgage to me. [Translation read.] The translation is quite clear. I understood it when I signed the deed. I understood the mortgage was to cover any further advances you might make to me, and any costs due by me to you. I consulted a lawyer before agreeing to the rate of interest named in the deed. I consulted Mr. Edwards. He also prepared the mortgage. I went before Judge Ward to have the mortgage approved. You were present. Mr. Edwards explained the deed to the Trust Commissioner. Eaniera was in Court. None of the Muaupoko objected to my mortgaging No. 14 to you. Eangimairehau and Kerehi were in Wanganui when mortgage was confirmed. I told them I had raised some money on a mortgage. They did not object. None of the Muaupoko have ever said a word to me in disapproval of my having mortgaged No. 14. [Horowhenua Commission, page 28, questions 113 to 122, and replies, read.] I re-affirm all those answers. They are true. What I meant by my answer to question 122 was that No. 14 was for myself alone. [Horowhenua Commission, page 29, question 146 ato 152, with replies, read.] My answers to those questions are true. When I gave my evidence before the Eoyal Commission, I had not seen the Court minutes. I gave my evidence before Judge Wilson gave his. [Horowhenua Commission, page 33, questions 244 to 245 read, with replies.] Those replies are all true. [Horowhenua Commission, page 181, question 318.] My reply to that question referred to the land at Eaumatangi. [Horowhenua Commission, page 181, question 319 read.] It is true that No. 14 was cut off first, but it was not accepted. [Horowhenua Commission, page 181, question 320.] That reply is correct. [Horowhenua Commission, page 181, question 321, and answer,' read.] I reaffirm those answers. [Horowhenua Commission, page 191, question 234 to 237, and replies, read.] Those replies are all true. [Horowhenua Commission, page 191, questions 241 to 244, and replies, read.] No. 9 was ordered on the Ist December, 1886. I applied for No. 14 on the 2nd December, 1886, but it was not awarded to me till the 3rd December, 1886, on which date I applied for it again. On the 2nd December, 1886, after the square foot was ordered. I applied for No. 14. Did not know why the Judge did not award it to me till the 3rd December, 1886. It was the last parcel applied for. [Horowhenua Commission, page 180, questions 299 to 317, and replies, read.] I will explain about the pa at Pipiriki. I anticipated an attack by Ngatiraukawa because Karanama said to Heta when he went to get the money for the telegraph posts, " Stand there with your horse." Heta held up one of the bags of money to them and sang a song of derision. Karanama said, "Go to Wanganui and tell Kemp what I say. I will cultivate potatoes at Mahoenui, because blood will be spilt there if Ido not go there. This is an important communication for you to make to Kemp." Heta gave me Karanama's message, and placed the money before me. I said it was my blood that was to be shed, and sent Heta back with instructions to prepare timber for a pa without letting what he was doing be known, and that I would follow him later. Heta returned to Horowhenua, and prepared the timber. Some months after I came as far as Eangitikei; saw Kawana ;he and some of the elders wanted to come with me and wanted to know the reason of my journey. I said I had no particular object. We reached Horowhenua. Te Watene was living at Kouturoa. It was proposed by Muaupoko to drag Watene out of the houses, and burn them. I tried to stop this, but they would not listen and burned down one of Watene's toetoe houses. I then made use of the timber prepared by Heta. Muaupoko erected the pa. Hunia remained inactive. We worked at the pa all night, and by morning the two sides were completed; by dinner-time the posts were all in. By this time the news had reached Otaki and Karanama and Parakaia came, but I took them to Kupe so they should not see the pa. They tried to persuade me to stop the trouble, but I would not have anything to say to them as they had come from Manawatu. Kawana Hunia remained silent all this time. Ido not remember saying at the Foxton Court that Kawana Hunia and I built the pa. I put it up myself. I did not mean to say in reply to Fraser that I had told lies before the Court in 1873. I did not want Kiri to tell lies before the Foxton Court. I did not put her up to telling lies. I did not build Waipata pa. My elders did. Kawana Eunia did not live there till lately, and then only as a visitor. I had no intention of admitting before the Royal Commission that I had told lies before the Court of 1873. The Court adjourned till the 9th instant.

Tuesday, 9th March, 1897. The Court opened at 10 a.m. Present: The same. No. 1, Horowhenua No. 14, resumed. Examination of Keepa te Eangihiwinui continued. Witness : I have said that the land I first offered to descendants of Whatanui was at Ohau. When they refused that, I gave it to them at Eaumatangi. No. 14, when first awarded to me,