G.—2

26

The Court did not comply with my application then, although it called for objectors, and was informed that there were none. The order was made on the third day. The land was given to me then. The Court called for objectors on the third day, and the people said there were none, that the land was mine and I was to have it. There was no evidence as to ancestry or other " takes " before either Mangakahia's or Kahui's Courts. The land was being divided among the people by voluntary arrangement. The arrangement was delayed for some time by McDonald's action. Trouble has been caused among us by Donald Fraser about the land, money, and about Warena's and my position in No. 11. After Court of 1886 Warena came to me for money, I paid him £70. Afterwards Donald Fraser urged him to come to me for more. I was expected to pay Wirihana's debts also. I remember the Court of 1890. It was for the purpose of ascertaining whether the land was for Warena and myself. The Court decided that it belonged to us alone. I applied for a rehearing. Majors Scannell and Mair presided at the rehearing Court. I brought them on to the land. This was in 1891 or 1892. This Court decided that it could not divide the land among the people, but that if any further action on behalf of the people was taken the Court would assist. The judgment of the former Court presided over by Colonel Trimble was confirmed. I continued to agitate after this judgment. I petitioned Parliament three or four times. McDonald and Donald Fraser did all they could to frustrate me. They told me that I could not succeed as the law was against me. At last I got a favourable report from the Native Affairs Committee. To that extent the people were put back on to the land. After that, and after Warena had sold the farm, the other side asked to have a law passed. I got Sir W. Buller to go to the Hon. J. Ballance about it. Sir W. Buller suggested that we should lodge a caveat. I eventually got a Proclamation put over the land to prevent it being sold. The other side were very much pleased with their success. They came to my hotel and taunted me. Mr. Stevens often came to the hotel and told me I was beaten, but they had a different story to tell when they saw the Proclamation. Shortly after this Mr. Ballance died, and I petitioned both Houses of Parliament, and consulted Sir W. Buller as to taking steps in the Supreme Court to test our position in No. 11. After I had commenced my action in the Supreme Court I appeared before the Native Affairs Committee in support of my petition, but was told that they had no report to make as the case was before the Supreme Court. The Committee of the Legislative Council made a favourable report on my petition. Subsequently the case came on in the Supreme Court in Wanganui. I, Eaniera, Eangimairehau, and Kerehi gave evidence. The decision of the Court was that the land belonged to the tribe. The other side took the case to the Appeal Court, which upheld the decision of the Supreme Court. They threatened to take it to England, and I was pleased, because that would have been final. I have always contended that the land belonged to the people. The other side always told me it belonged to us two only, and tried to dissuade me from the action I was taking. After this a Commission was set up, and I knew it was intended to do me an injury, and made up my mind not to appear before it. It occurred to me also that the Government had got into some difficulty over the land they had bought from Warena. I was subpcened to appear before the Commission by Sir W. Buller, and I was angry. Sir Walter Buller told me that I would be put in prison if I did not attend; but I said '' What do I care if I am." After the Court of 1891 we had meetings about our raruraru. The first was at Pipiriki, Mr. J. M. Fraser, Donald Fraser, and Wirihana were present. Ido not know whether Warena was present. All Muaupoko were there. Donald Fraser asked Eu Eeweti to persuade me to come to the meeting and make an arrangement with the tribe. I attended the meeting and I said it was no use as I had already offered Warena 3,500 acres, and he would not accept it. I made the first offer in Wellington. Donald Fraser, Barnicoat, and Wirihana were present. Wirihana told me that the area offered was only sufficient for Warena himself. At Pipiriki all Muaupoko assembled in front of me. I told them I ha,d not come of my own accord but at the request of the Warena and Fraser combination. I further said I now give you my share of the land to do as you like with. Then they applied to Wirihana and Donald Fraser. Donald Fraser said he would not talk to the tribe but would negotiate with me. He proposed to me that we should pick out the best of the block and give the sand to the people. I declined, and suggested that the lines should be drawn from the sea to the inland boundary. One of Donald Fraser's proposals was that the lake should be divided between us, and that the tribe should be left in the sand seaward of the lake. I left after this, as I altogether refused to agree. Nothing definite was done at the meeting. I do not remember whether the rerewaho were discussed at the Pipiriki meeting. The meeting referred to was the last meeting held to discuss No. 11. I know Waata Muruahi. I think he was at the Pipiriki meeting. [Horowhenua Commission, pages 275, 276, questions 290 to 299, and replies, read.] That is all utterly untrue. No. 14 was not discussed at the Pipiriki meeting. I did not ask for it there, it was mine already. No. 6 was also in my name to give to the rerewaho. I did not hear No. 14 mentioned at Pipiriki. When we discussed No. 14 at Palmerston, Waata Muruahi was at Parihaka. There was not a word at Pipiriki about my giving back part of No. 14 to some of the people. I never heard any statement of the kind at any time. They might have done so if they had thought proper when I was before them. I did not hear it suggested that No. 14 was not mine until after the Commission. I did not hear it so stated in evidence before the Commission. No. 14 was never mooted at any of the proceedings about Horowhenua until the Commission. Donald Fraser and McDonald taught Te Paki to speak falsely before the Commission; they endeavoured to induce Hoani to speak falsely in Parliament, but he refused. I know the effect of a caveat. It is to prevent the sale of land. The Muaupoko and I caveated No. 11, No. 6— I don't remember the others. Muaupoko did not caveat No. 14. The Government lodged a caveat at the request of my opponents in November, 1896. I have exercised rights of ownership over No. 14 ; I have leased it to you, and mortgaged it to you. [For leases, see Horowhenua Commission, pages 319 to 321.] lam speaking of the leases dated in 1892 and mentioned in the proceedings at the Horowhenua Commission. You have been in possession of the land between the railway and the sea