G.—2

116

747. Supposing you had some property of Te Whatanui's: who do you consider would have been the proper people to return that property to —supposing you had a horse of his, or sheep, or anything of that sort ?—lf a man had a brother, I should go to the brother first. 748. But to whom would you have gone to restore this property ?—I should say principally to those who occupied, and who fought for him. 749. Watene and his people ?—Yes. 750. With regard to the burning of the whares, is it not a matter of common talk amongst the Natives of Muaupoko that the allotment of 1,200 acres was arranged to be given to Watene and his people in settlement of that burning dispute over which they took up arms ?—As far as I believe, I should say it was always understood to be for the " descendants of Te Whatanui." 751. Was it not understood and talked about as a matter of common knowledge that Watene and his people were those to whom the land was given back by Kemp and Sir D. McLean ? —I believe that is what was stated by the Muaupoko. 752. Were you in Otaki at the meeting held immediately after arms were resorted to?—I did not happen to be at the meeting, but I was in Otaki when Sir D. McLean was there. 753. Do you recollect who of the representatives of Te Whatanui interviewed McLean at Otaki ? —I could not say; I was only there on a flying visit. 754. This was the topic of discussion—this emeute between the Muaupoko and Ngatiraukawa ? Ybs 755. Some 300 Natives of Ngatiraukawa came up from Otaki, to this land, to back up their friends ?—Yes. 756. Then the whole lot returned to Otaki to meet Sir D. McKean ? —Yes. 757. Those who went to Otaki, to meet Sir D. McLean, were Tauteka, Caroline Watene, Neville Nicholson and others ?—Yes. 758. Are you aware that not a single one of the Ngapuhis—Pomare's people—attended at Otaki on that occasion?—l did not hear of them. 759. But you did hear of these others ? —Yes. 760. You are also aware that these people went on to Wellington with McLean ?—I could not say. 761. As a matter of fact, Watene and these people started to build a fighting-pa?— Yes. 762. Part of the works of which are visible to this day?— Yes. 763. Mr Baldwin.] You say that Tutaki died at Otoroa under painful circumstances; that he was removed there : who removed him there ? —So far as I can recollect it was Caroline. 764. And she was living with her sister Hitau there ? —Yes. 765. What was there painful about his death ?—He was in a very low condition when he went away ; I think if the old man had remained, and my father was there he would have recovered. 766. He was practically starving ? —He was deserted, I believe, after his removal in a very painful condition ; I would not say he had proper attention ; my father was very much grieved to hear of his death when he returned. 767. Your father was very well acquainted with the old Whatanui?—l believe so. 768. I have a letter here written from your father to the Hon. Mr. Fox. Mr. G. S. Cooper had sent your father a memorandum, saying :— No. 11. Mr. G. S. Coopbb to Mr. H. McDonald. Sib,— Native Office, 23rd October, 1869. Complaints have been made to the Government to the effect that you have been inducing the Muaupoko people to obstruct the survey of land at Horowhenua, the title of which is unsettled. I am directed by Mr. Pox to request that you will cease to interfere in this manner, as Che execution of a survey is the only way in which the land can be brought into Court, and the title of the opposing claimants settled. I have, &c, Mr. Hector McDonald, Horowhenua. G. S. Cooper, Under Secretary.

No. 12. Mr. H. McDonald to the Hon. W. Pox. Sic, — Horowhenua, 25th October, 1869. In answer to your notes to me about inducing the Muaupokoa to obstruct the survey of Horowhenua, it is false. I defy any of the Muaupokos to say that I ever told them to do anything of the kind. I will try and explain to your Honour all about it, as far as I know about the land. I rent a run of the Whatanui, and lived on it for the last twelve years; the Whatanui died last January; as soon as he was dead, two women—Caroline, living with a man named Albert Nicholson, and Tautika Matene, Te Whiwhi's wife —claimed the land and tried to turn me off. Caroline and Tautika were three days at my place, pulled down my fence, and threatened to burn my house down over my head. I wrote to Dr. Peatherston about them ;he gave my letter to Mr. Richmond, who came up and heard all what the Muaupokos had to say ; they, the Muaupokos, say they are owners of all Horowhenua, with Whatanui, and will not admit any one but Whatanui's daughter and her husband to be owners of Horowhenua; Whatanui told me many times before his death that all his things and lands were theirs after his death; his daughter and her husband, Wiremu Pomare, a great chief of Mahurangi, are coming next month to take possession of the land. I have five letters from them to take no notice of these women, the land was theirs, and when they came, I should have the place as long as I liked; no one had any business to turn off the pakeha that Whatanui left on the place. Your Honour, instead of me trying to stop the survey, I stopped the Muaupokos from breaking Mr. Swainson's glasses and chain. Mr. Richmond could tell you all what the Muaupokos said to him about the dispute. Those women and old Matene are angry with me for not acknowledging them as my landlords. Nicholson and old Matene are at the bottom of it all. I can prove that Nicholson told those women to burn my house and kill my sheep, to turn me off and give the run to him. It was Nicholson and Swainson that caused all the row with the Natives, in persisting to havo the land surveyed in spite of the Muaupoko. Your Honour, it is only a few weeks back that those women got a Native, a brother of their mother, to try to turn me off. He claims the land, but the Ngatihuias told him they had a letter from Whatanui's daughter and Pomare to look after me, and to leave me alone till they came ;he has said nothing to me since. I hope your Honour will excuse this long letter, but I wish to clear myself of the complaint laid against me, for I defy any one to prove that I ever told a Native anything but what I thought was right, or in any way to obstruct the sale of land. I have