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506. The money was paid in connection with that by Kemp ?—That is what my idea was— was in consequence of Horowhenua. 507. Eight hundred acres was given for the payment of Sievewright's account by Kemp, was it not ?—Yes. 508. The 4,000 acres in No. 3 was given to Kemp for the purpose of being sold to the Government as a township ?—Yes. 509. Were you to get any portion of the land back again ?—We heard so. 510. You were to get back one section in every ten ? —We heard the Natives were to get quarter-acre sections in the town. 511. Have you got any of them ? —No ; the Government have taken the quarter-acre sections. 512. What was the amount of money for which the whole 4,000 acres was sold?—I do not know. 513. If you were told it was £2,000, would you think it fair? —If I knew, I would say. 514. Do you say you do not know how much the township was sold for, and have never been informed by Kemp?—l have told you Ido not know. 515. Nor do you know how much Kemp's debt was to Mr. Sievewright ?—I know how many acres were given to Kemp to pay the bill, but I do not know the amount of the bill. 516. You know how many acres there are in the township block ?—Yes ; because we gave it. 517. And you never heard how much money Kemp received from it?—l did not hear; had it been said, I should have heard. 518. When No. 11 was put into the names of Kemp and Warena Hunia, had Kemp a power to do absolutely as he liked without consulting any of the people in No. 11 ?—The cause of the trouble was that there were two in it. 519. According to Native custom, would Kemp have absolute power to do as he liked if he had been in it alone ? —Yes ; he would be able to do so, because he would be there by himself. 520. As a chief ?—Yes. 521. Is not this customary amongst the Maoris to hand over large blocks of land to the chief, and allow the- chief to do exactly as he likes with it ? The chiefs have land, but the commonest people have a right to land too ; but the chiefs have more land than the rank and file?— Yes. 522. You say that Te Eangi Mairehau's evidence was correct, in which he said that No. 14 was given to Kemp to do as he chose with ?—Yes. 523. Why did you select this particular piece of land to give to Kemp, to do as he liked with? —It has been divided off for Ngatiraukawa; therefore, they agreed that Kemp should have it. 524. With regard to the deed of release which was produced, it is said that every person who signed that deed was satisfied ? —Yes. 525. Who was Kemp's lawyer at the time that was signed? —There was no lawyer came up to Horowhenua; Sir Walter Buller was the lawyer. 526. Was Sir Walter Buller advising Kemp at that time?—l do not know whether he was Kemp's lawyer at that time or not; I only know he appeared at Horowhenua with the deed. 527. He asked them to sign a deed which purported to settle any future difference which might arise between themselves and Kemp ?—Yes. 528. Why did they sign the deed? Was it to indemnify Kemp? —Yes. 529. If Kemp had done no wrong, what was the necessity for signing a deed?—We did not know he had done any wrong; it was just agreeing to all he had done. 530. Who was the solicitor advising the Muaupoko, on the other side ?—I do not know of any lawyer. 531. They were not at that time represented by any solicitor in the making of this contract?— Sir Walter Buller gave us the deed, and we signed it. 532. You never consulted any lawyer as to whether you were right or wrong?— Never. 533. Warena Hunia was also in the title with Kemp : is that not so ? —Yes. 534. Did you not think it necessary to consult with Warena Hunia, or to give a deed to Warena, in the same way as you did to Kemp ? —No. 535. Why did you not consider it necessary to give a deed of indemnification to him ?—We never thought of it. 536. Up to that time had Warena sold my land ?—Yes. 537. What land?— The State Farm ; that was after the deed was signed. 538. If Warena had sold no land, there was no necessity to give him a deed : was that not the reason? —The deed was signed before Warena made his sale. 539. Do you remember the occasion when Hunia was summoned for burning the houses ? —Yes. 540. Do you remember who accompanied Hunia to Wellington at that time ?—Eewiri, Karaitiana, Hapimana, Wirihana, Tawhata, and Te Eangi Manihau. 541. Did not Paki te Hungago? —No. 542. It was said the arrangement with regard to the 1,200 acres for the descendants of Whatanui was made and completed by Kemp ? —Yes. 543. Had Hunia nothing to do with the arrangement ?—No. 544. Do you remember the occasion of Hunia and myself coming to the pa here a few days after the shots were fired ?—Yes ; after some time. 545. Do you remember that at that time Sir Donald McLean was at Otaki?—Yes. 546. Do you remember that Hunia went and saw Sir Donald McLean the following day after his arrival here ?—I do not know about that; I saw Hunia. J 547. If Hunia made an arrangement with Sir Donald McLean regarding the settlement of this question between Ngatiraukawa and Muaupoko, he might have done so without your knowing anything about it ?—I do not know.