103

G.—2

181. Did you tell Ihaia what he was to do with the land?—We gave it to him because he had been dumb, and we told him to take care of it; I personally told him that he was to take care of it. 182. Did anybody else tell him that?— The tribe agreed to give it him, and Kemp agreed. 183. Was it given him as a caretaker ?—Yes; Ihaia got up and said, "Very well; if I die, what is to become of the land " ? 184. Can you tell us who he was a caretaker for ? Can you give a list of the persons?— He.was caretaker for the tribe. 185. For the whole tribe ? —That would depend on himself. 186. The land for the railway-line was given absolutely to Kemp ?—I do not know about that. 187. No. 10 was given to Kemp absolutely ?—Yes ; it was. 188. Do you expect to get anything out of that railway-line ?—I do not know. 189. You make no claim ? —I do not know that I have any right in that land. 190. You have nothing to say about these small pieces—4, 7, and 8 ? —No. 191. You are an older man than Kemp?—Yes. 192. Were you in the Court in 1873?— Yes. 193. Was not the reason that Kemp was made a trustee for you all on that occasion, that he had experience in European customs and manners ?—The whole of the tribe selected Kemp. 194. For the reason I have stated? —No; he was a man who understood our customs. 195. Was that not one of the reasons? —Yes. 196. Bopata Ilanajriri.] In reply to a question, if it was the whole tribe that selected Kemp to conduct these lands in 1873, you replied that the reason they selected him was that he understood about Native customs, and about European customs ? —Yes. 197. And you found no fault with the way he conducted the proceedings after 1873 ?—No ; we found no fault. 198. Would you have found fault with Kemp if he had given a part of this land to outsiders, such as the Ngatiraukawa ?—Yes ; I should have been angry. 199. But you had already given the whole thing into Kemp's hands ?—The land had not been divided in-1874. 200. lam talking of Kemp's arrangements with Ngatiraukawa in 1874?— I assented to Kemp giving some of the land to Ngatiraukawa. 201. I am not talking about what Kemp may do now, but about what he did then, after 1874, and the land he gave away to other people before this land was surveyed. Did you find fault with the arrangements made by Sir Donald McLean and Kemp after 1874?— I heard they gave 1,200 acres to Ngatiraukawa, and I was not angry, but thought it was quite right; but lam not agreeable to give any more land. I would not disagree to anything that Kemp had done that year ; what he did was perfectly right. Makeee tb Eangimaikehau examined. 202. Sir W. Buller.] To what tribe do you belong ?—To Muaupoko. 203. Where do you live ? —At Horowhenua. 204. Do you remember giving evidence in the Supreme Court at Wanganui in 1894 ?—Yes. .205. And Te Eangi Mairehau gave evidence there also ?—Yes. 206. You have heard the evidence of Te Eangi Mairehau before the Commission : do you say that the whole of it is true? —Yes. 207. Was it substantially the same evidence as you heard him give previously at the Supreme Court ?—Yes. 208. With regard to Block 4, you were present at the Native Land Court in 1886 ?—Yes. 209. You took part in the deliberations there of the tribe? —Yes. 210. You are the Makere who went into a room off the Court with Kemp when there was a little difficulty in Court about No. 11 ? —Yes. 211. What was done with Blook 11 at that Court?—lt was given to Kemp. 212. For what purpose?— Because he had a claim on the land. 213. Why was it given to Kemp and Warena ? For themselves or for someone else ?—The land was given to them by the Court to take care of for the tribe —for Muaupoko. 214. And the block of 13,000 acres was given to Ihaia Taueki: was it for himself or as caretaker ? —lt was given to him in the same way that blocks were given to Kemp and others—to take care of for the tribe. 215. Was the 4,600 acres on the other side of the railway-line given to Kemp ?—Yes. 216. For whom ? —lt was given to Kemp to take care of. 217. For those who were left out in 1873 ? —Yes. 218. And when the Ngatiraukawa would not accept Waiwiri, what became of it ?—lt went back to Kemp. 219. For himself or as a caretaker ?—I do not know who it was for—whether it was for Kemp alone. 220. Do you object to Kemp having it for himself ?—No. 221. Have you heard of the leases to myself and Mr. Bartholomew of this land ?—Yes. 222. Did you ever disapprove of those leases ?—No; I found no fault with them. 223. Have you ever asked for or expected any of the rent ?—No. 224. Did you object at any time to the sale by Kemp to me of a portion of this land for £100 ? —No. 225. Have you ever heard any of the Muaupoko object?—l have not. 226. You have heard of the mortgage by Kemp to me for £500 of this land. Have you ever objected to that mortgage ?—No. 227. Have you ever heard any member of the Muaupoko objecting, either then or since, to that mortgage ? —No.