51

G.—2

82. Who was the surveyor ?—I do not know who surveyed the whole of the block ; the men who cut up the sections were Palmerston and Scott. 83. Who paid them the money that was paid for this ?—We did. 84. Did Kemp pay any portion of it ?—No. 85. Is there still a balance owing ?—No ; it is all paid up. 86. For the whole of the subdivision ? —Yes; there is money owing. 87. How much balance is owing?—l can only say the whole is owing in No. 11; I think it is £390. Warena is to pay of that £150. Judge Mackay, in making an award, said he was to pay that, and Kemp was to pay nearly £200. None has been paid. 88. Did Mr. Bartholomew take a lease of some timber land here or acquire the right of cutting timber ? —Yes ; that is the land for the rerewaho. 89. What was his first lease ?—A portion of No. 3. Kemp leased him 1,000 acres. He sold the timber on the land for £500. 90. Did you get any part of that £500, or your people?—No; I have received no portion of it. 91. After having sold the timber, what became of the 1,000 acres ?—lt has been subdivided by the Court. 92. That was part of the land given for the rerewaho ? —Yes. 93. Out of the first transaction, then, with Mr. Bartholomew, Kemp received £500, for which he did not account?— Yes. 94. How was the 1,000 acres disposed of afterwards?—l and my friends got a portion of the land to the amount of 500 acres. 95. How much did you get in your own individual right? —105 acres. 96. Is that all the land you have ever received out of Horowhenua ?—Yes. 97. Who got the remainder of the 1,000 acres?—lt was given to some of the Muaupoko. I had the part upon which the mill stood. Kemp and I had a great argument in Court about it, but I got the best of it. 98. Ought Kemp to have got 105 acres there also?—lf he was not in the subdivision, he could not get it. 99. Was his name on the list?— No. 100. Did he get any portion of the land ?—No. 101. But he sold the timber on the land for £500 : why did he do so ?—I do not know, unless because he said he had the arranging of it. I only know he did it as he did in other cases. His arrangements about this land have all been on the same lines. 102. There were other transactions with Bartholomew?— Yes. 103. What was the second transaction? —It was connected with the land given to the rerewaho. That has also been leased by Kemp, and Bartholomew is cutting down the timber now. 104. How much rent does Kemp receive ? —Bartholomew pays so much per 100 feet. 105. Have you any idea how much money he has accrued since it was let? —I think it must amount to £500. p I think it is in the bank under the names of two men and one woman. 106. So Kemp is not in receipt of the tithes from this timber ?—When the people to whom the land belonged heard it had been leased by Kemp, they went up to destroy the tramway, and Mr. Bartholomew went to Wellington, where I was, to try and get me to smooth matters over and make a settlement. Then I came back here to see about it, and I made the arrangements I have stated : " Let Kemp's lease stand, but let the money be paid into the bank under the names of three individuals." Then, when the land was adjudicated upon by the Court, the moneys would be divided amongst those to whom the land was found to belong. I said, "We cannot do anything with Kemp, because the land is in his name, but we can see that the money is paid into a bank account for the tribe hereafter." We took the document to Kemp, and he assented to it. 107. What are the names of the two men and the woman ? —Hanita Henare, Matai te Mawhai (Broughton), and Tuhi Hori. That was the arrangement; but perhaps the money was only paid to two of these, the woman's name may have been omitted. 108. Bartholomew's mill was stopped until this arrangement had been made ?—Yes. 108 a. Bartholomew did not go to Kemp to have this settled. Why did he go to you ?—I do not know; one reason was that he knew the Natives were very angry with Kemp. 109. Was there any further transaction with regard to Kemp and Bartholomew ?—Yes ; there was another 1,000 acres. He sold the timber now growing on the land of the State Farm to Bartholomew for £500. It was paid to Kemp. 110. Do you get any portion of it ?—Kemp gave me £100, but he did not tell me that it was a portion of that £500 that he had been paid by Bartholomew. I understood in my own mind that it came from that direction. 111. In which block was this 1,000 acres on which the timber was sold?— No. 11; on the part of the division belonging to Warena. 112. Was this timber sold before the division was made ? —No; some time after the division. 113. In the first place No. 11 was set aside for Kemp and Warena ; subsequently it was divided into two parts—one for each of them. Was the timber sold before that division or afterwards ?—I think it was sold before. 114. Did Warena agree to the sale of this timber for £500? —No ; he did not know anything about the sale. 115. These are all the transactions with regard to the timber ? —There was a flax-mill leased. It is on a portion of No. 11—on Warena's portion ; it was leased to Bartholomew. I did not see the lease, but I believe it was for £50 a year. 116. Mr. Bush.] Was the lease by Kemp and hie friends ? —Yes; I only heard of it by Kemp, Kerehi, Makere, Eanira, and Ihaia Taueki.