G.—2

49

19. Now with regard to the Native Land Court in 1872-73, do you remember the sitting of that Court at Foxton ?—Yes. 20. On whose application was it ?—The Ngatiraukawa applied for the Court, and the Government suggested the Court should sit to prevent trouble. 21. Were there many people assembled to attend the Court?—A great many tribes were assembled at it. 22. Did your father take any part in the proceedings?— Yes ; my father called all his tribes together to assemble at that Court—Ngatiapa, Muaupoko, Ngatikahungungu, and Eangitane. 23. Who provided the food ?—My father and his tribe Ngatiapa and we —the children and young fellows—brought the food up in carts from Eangitikei. 24. Have you any idea how much the providing of the food cost in money ?—I cannot tell what the price of the food was. There was pork and beef and eels. I could tell you what flour cost a ton, but I cannot tell you how many tons there were consumed at the meeting. I daresay he purchased £100 worth from the Government, that he paid Mr. Booth for. Some was brought by steamer from Wellington, and some from Eangitikei and adjoining places. 25. Did he employ a solicitor to conduct his case?— Yes ; Mr. Cash, of Marton. 26. How much was paid to Mr. Cash for his services ?—I think his bill amounted to £400. Then there was £50 he gave the Ngatikahungungu, and Eangitane, and Muaupoko and Ngatiapa to purchase food. 27. Why did these persons come to the sitting of the Court ? —They came to assist Hunia. 28. To give evidence in the Court ? —No; they came because of a large piece of land that took in all the Tararua Eanges ; they came to protect their own interests and assist Hunia. The Ngatikahungungu came to the Court to assist Hunia, in case of any disturbance amongst the different tribes assembled, and to see that their interests were not imperilled. 29. Was your father present the whole time at the Court ? —Yes ; he and Kemp were there the whole time. 29a. The Chairman.] How was it the certificate was issued in Kemp's name ? —Hunia did not know what. Kemp was after. Kemp arranged all this in a tent on a Sunday. Hunia was a thorough Maori in all his ideas, but Kemp knew much more about European procedure and the way of doing things. 30. Mr. Stevens.] The result would be stated in Court ?—Yes ; when the decision was given out in Court, Hunia heard, for the first time, that Kemp's name alone was in the land. 31. And he never took any steps to alter that?— The Court said first of all to Kemp, "We consider it is not the correct thing for your name alone to be in this block." Mr. Cash then said, " I did not know that it was arranged that Kemp's name alone should go in." Kemp said, " Well I am quite willing that Hunia's name should be in the block with mine." 32. But it was not put in ? —Kemp then addressed the Court, and said he thought his name should go in, and all the other names come afterwards, in a list. " Let my name be in. I know that the interests concerned belong to Hunia and the whole of the people, and whatever they agree shall be done with the land, I will do." " Well Hunia, what do you say to that ?" Hunia said, "I do not understand the work done by Kemp ; but since I have heard what has been said in Court, I can understand his motives." The Court then suggested to Hunia, that his name should go in, and Hunia said, "I object to be brought up here, and then my name being brought in in this way. Hunia got in a rage, and left the Court, saying, " Very well; let Kemp's name go in." He got very dark about the whole business. 33. After the sitting of the court did Ngatiraukawa ask to come back again into any portion of the Horowhenua?—Yes. 34. And what action was taken to prevent that ?—Their petition was refused by the Government. 35. Did they erect houses on any part of the land?— Yes; they built houses and erected fences on the land, and Hunia came up with his committee and told Watene he must not fence. 36. Did they persist in fencing and burning houses ?—Watene assented that he would fence, and Hunia and his committee returned to Eangitikei. 37. Did you ever hear of Hunia having instructed Paki te Hunga to burn down houses?— That was before 1873. 38. What action did Hunia take with regard to this?— There was first of all a meeting to make the house at Kupe on the other side of the Horowhenua Lake, and a large meeting-house was built; the timber to build it was brought from Eangitikei. 39. Have you any idea of the cost of the timber, and how much was paid for erecting the house ? —I have forgotten what the price of the timber was. 40. Who paid for the house?—Hunia paid for it. 41. Did Kemp pay any part of the cost ?—No ; he was not here. He had nothing to do with these matters. It is only just now that Kemp says he is chief of the Muaupoko. He has nothing to do with them ; he was never here for ten or more years. 42. Did the Ngatiraukawa wish to take possession of the Horowhenua Block here ?—Yes. 43. What happened, and who took a leading part in preventing them coming on the land ?— They were on the land at the time Kupe was being built; that was the reason the house was built, in consequence of the Ngatiraukawa having located themselves on this land; to call the tribes together to see what should be done under the circumstances ; and the outside tribes came and sat in committee, so that the mana of Te Whatanui should be abolished in Horowhenua, and the people on the land be sent away to Otaki. It was a very large meeting at Kupe. 44. Was Kemp present at that meeting?—-No. 45. Do you remember Kawana Hunia receiving a criminal summons for having incited men to bum down houses?— Yes. 7—G. 2.