G.—2

41

231. Was he the Minister from whom you got the money?— Yes; I understood Mr. McKenzie was the Minister when I received the money. 232. You say the meeting at Horowhenua was soon after the judgment of the Land Court by Judges Mair and Scannel and your going to Wellington with Eraser was about the same time?— Yes. 233. Did you have any communication at all with any Minister during the three years before this time, or did you do nothing?—l was in communication with him. 234. What was the nature of the communication ?—I worked, and the Government worked, and you too. 235. What were you doing while you were waiting for the money ?—I simply waited for the money. 236. Did you not ask the Government for the money? Did you not send Donald Fraser to ask for it ?■—Yes. 237. Many times ?—No ; once. 238. During all those three years while you were waiting for the money—from the time Fraser said it was all settled down to the time you received the £2,000 — was not a trouble going on between you a,nd the tribe in the Supreme Court and Parliament ?—Yes ; I and Kemp had constant trouble. 239. And there were petitions to Parliament over and over again, and an action in the Supreme Court during that period ? —Yes. 240. Do you remember a summons being served on you to attend in the Supreme Court and answer charges against you by Kemp, your co-trustee ?—Yes ; and I went to Wanganui. 241. Did you not receive that summons long before you got the £2,000 out of Mr. McKenzie?— Yes. 242. Had the action not been commenced and the process served months before you got the money ?—The summons was received by me before I got the money ; then I got the money, and after that the hearing of the case commenced. 243. You complained that you did not get a share of the rents and moneys that Kemp was getting ?—I got no rent. 244.—Y0u got nothing out of the 800 acres handed over for Sievewright and Stout ?—No. 245. Are you not aware that was a gift to enable Muaupoko to pay off a big bill of costs? —■ Yes; I knew there was an absolute gift of this 800 acres made to Kemp. I heard it was for that purpose. 246. If so, how could you expect any money out of that if it was a gift for that purpose?—l never said I expected anything out of it, because I knew it had been given to Kemp for that purpose. 247. You say Kemp received rents from Hector McDonald, and you never got any?—No; I had no money. 248. Is it not a fact that you were always asking Kemp for money when you were in trouble ?—■ I only went once to Kemp to ask him for money, at the commencement of the disturbance between me and Kemp over the timber leases to Bartholomew, over 1,000 acres. I went to Wanganui, and we both went to Eichard Woon's office. 249. Did Kemp give you any?—No; but he and I had a dispute. I then said to Kemp, " Then I shall apply for a division of this land." 250. That was why you applied for a division of the land ?—-That was the reason I asked for it. 251. You made this application by word of mouth to Kemp in Fraser's hearing? —Yes; I asked him if he had received the money from Bartholomew for the lease over that 1,000 acres, and he said, " I have not received any money for the lease," and he then said that in any case he did not see that I should take money from the lands here to pay for cases that were going to be heard in Napier. 252. How much money did you ask for on that occasion?—£loo. I said, "If you have received the money and spent it for your own purposes, you had better say so at once." 253. Did you say what you wanted the £100 for?—l wanted £100, but I wanted whatever money he had got. If he had told me he had received the money, and it had been spent, there would have been an end of it. 254. Were you being pressed by creditors? Were you in a hurry to get the money or not ?— No. I heard from the solicitor in Marton that Kemp had leased this land to Bartholomew, so I. went to ask for my share of the money. 255. Not because you were being pressed by creditors ?—No. 256. Are you sure that was the only occasion on which you asked Kemp to give you money ?— I went once before to Kemp. 257. Where was that ?—I and Fraser went to him in Wellington, and I asked him for £100, and he gave it to me. 258. Was that application made by word of mouth—face to face ?—Yes. 259. You were not being pressed by your creditors then?— Yes; I was in want of money, as I very often am. 260. About what time was it you got this £100? Was it long after the Land Court in 1886?— I got it in the same year. 261. Are those the only occasions on which you asked Kemp for money?— There was another time, at Wanganui, when I sent him a wire from Bull's, and he sent me £40; that was at the end of the year. 262. Have you ever, on any other occasion, asked Kemp for money ?—No; I have got £140 ; that is all. 6—a. 2.