G.—2

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91. Did they get a judgment in the Supreme Court?— That was another case. 92. When the demand was made, and you agreed to pay it, had you the money to pay it with ? —No ; I had very little money. 93. Did you ask the tribe to pay it—the Muaupoko—and, if so, why ?—Yes ; at the time the block was being cut up into 105-acre blocks, it was then I asked the Muaupoko to pay this debt. 94. On what ground did you ask them to pay a bill they were not parties to ?—Because my own people would not pay it. Instead of coming forward to pay it out of the rents they received, they ran away with it and never came and helped me to pay the debts I had incurred in their behalf. I, therefore, asked the Muaupoko to step forward and pay it, and the Muaupoko consented to do so. 95. As an act of grace ?—Yes, out of consideration and out of respect for me, and also because I was considered to be a chief amongst them, too. 96. Was Mr. McDonald present when this generous act was performed by your tribe?—-Yes; he was there when they assented to this; and it was arranged that they should give me 800 acres, which was the amount I calculated would be necessary to pay the debt. It was then considered that Palmerston should get 10s. an acre for survey, and then there would be £3 10s. per acre to go towards paying the bill of costs. 97. Was Mr. McDonald in the barn when this arrangement was assented to?—I would not be positive. 98. Who calculated the 800 acres ? —The surveyor. 99. Who fixed the price at £3 10s. ? —I asked the surveyor what he thought the land was worth. He said it would sell for £4, that it may be worth £5; but he thought £4 was a safe thing. It was worked out on that principle. 100. Did any member of the tribe object to this proposal to pay your debt as an act of grace out of the tribal estate?—No ; at the time of this meeting they all assented without one objecting voice. 101. What did they do next ?—Then I began to take into consideration the " outsiders." 102.- What do you mean by the " outsiders " ?—Those whose names had been forgotten when the list of names was made ud in 1873. 103. What was the suggestion you had to make about these " outsiders " ? —I did not mention it to the tribe, but I came to the conclusion that I would make some provision for that by and by. It was not the tribe that did this ; it was my own individual action. 104. What was done in regard to the " outsiders " ? What provision did you make for them?—l made allotments. I cut off a piece of land for them —4,000 acres and some more —I forget how much ; 4,615 acres or thereabouts. 105. How many did you propose to put into this allotment on the principle that they had been left out by mistake ? —I did not know at the time how many were left out, but when I apportioned the piece of land I calculated they would receive more than the others would receive. 106. Was a list of them prepared at the time?—No; when this land was given to them by me the tribe consented to it and passed it, and after that their names were taken into Court. 107. The tribe agreed to this arrangement for the outsiders?— Yes; there was no dissentient. 108. Do you remember whether McDonald was there and heard this ?—Yes; he was there at the time ; there was not one man absent. 109. Was Warena Hunia there ?—No. 110. Did he attend any of those meetings?— No. 111. But Wirihana was there?— Yes ; he was always there. 112. Did Wirihana or any one else object to what you were doing in regard to the outsiders ? —No ;no one made any objection ;if there had been it would have been noted in Court. 113. Having made provision for the outsiders, what did you do next? —I then thought to cut off a piece of land near the railway for the descendants of Te Whatanui. 114. What do you mean by near the railway ? —A portion through which the railway runs. 115. What did the tribe say to that?— When I gave that land to Te Whatanui I told his people what I had done, and the tribe did not make any objection ; there were no objections at all. When the descendants of Whatanui heard of the piece of land that I was going to offer them they said they did not want it there ; they were not agreeable to take it; they wanted their land, near where the 100 acres were that had been given by the Court previously. 116. Who told you that they were not satisfied ?—Aohau and others. 117.—What did you say then?— Then I gave them the land on the other piece. I left the burial-ground out. 118. Was it the ancient burial-place ? —lt was a very ancient burial-place. 119. What did they say when you offered them this?— They consented to take that land for themselves. liewiri and others asked to have a piece of the land near the railway too. 120. Did anything come of that?—No ; I thought they had quite sufficient. 121. When you found they would not accept the portion you proposed to give them, what did you do with the first 1,200 acres you had cut off? —I cut off that land because it was our own individual land ; our own distinctively. 122. When they would not accept the other portion, did you keep it yourself, or what did you do with it ?—lt was placed under my name, and when it was placed in my name there was no one to dissent from it. 123. Who could have dissented?—Eauira, Tamatea, Ngahuia, and the descendants of Arahia and some others. They were the only ones who could have dissented. 124. Did you keep it yourself?—l kept it in my own name, so that it should not be taken by others. They have founded their accusation against me on account of this block. When the quarrel between us commenced, they said upon this pretext that I had stolen the land.