27

G.—2

and mark off a piece for a township." I said, " I will wait until I get back and see the tribe, and see what they will say." He said, " This may be the only time you and I will be here ; we had better make some arrangement, and go and see Mr. Ballance; it is the only opportunity we may have." Then I thought, "We will arrange this." I went up and got a small sum of money from the Government, as a deposit. I gave Mr. McDonald £25 of the money I received, which was more than I kept, and Mr. McDonald gave me back £10. I also gave some of this money to Wirihana Hunia ; I gave him £80. I may have given Wiki some of the money, but I don't know. I don't know now how much money I got, but the accounts will show. After that I got very unwell. Then there was a Gazette for a Court to sit in 1886, but at that time I was very unwell indeed. It was in consequence of my being so ill that the Court was adjourned from time to time. After some time I got very angry with the doctor who was attending me, and I said, " I don't care what is the matter with me, or whether I die or not; I shall go up to the Court." I told the tribe I would go up and settle the matter before I died. When I got away to the Court I found I was quite strong and well, and concluded that the doctor had been humbugging me. We went up and stayed at Mr. Palmerston's house. There was a large barn given for the Muaupoko to camp in. 62. Who settled in this barn?— The Muaupoko ; I told them they had better stay there. 63. Had they any other habitations, such as tents, Sic, ? —Yes; but they got the barn for nothing. This was the year the land was subdivided. 64. Who was the Judge? —Judge Wilson; and the Assessor was Kahui Kakutai, a Taranaki man. 65. Was he the Assessor who commenced the case, or was there another ? —Hamiora Mangakahia was the first Assessor, and Kukutai took his place in consequence of his being ill. 66. Were you the principal man, or was some one else ?—They had to consult, and bring the result of their findings to me for approval. 67. Had you any talk before you went into the Court—among yourselves ?—Yes; we agreed to subdivide the land. 67a. Did you discuss the mode of that division before you went before the Judge ? —Yes. 68. Did you first of all discuss the question of a piece of land for the Manawatu Eailway ? — Yes, Mr. McDonald said the piece for the railway was to be vested in my name. 69. How many acres ?—I did not know then; but I think 72 or 75 acres. First of all, the land for the railway was proclaimed, then the land that we were going to sell to the Government. No one raised any objection to the land being vested in me for the railway or the land that was to be sold to the Government. 70. What took place in the barn before going into Court ? Was Mr. McDonald there ?—Mr. McDonald suggested that the land for the railway was to be vested in my name; also that the land we were going to sell to the Government should be vested in my name. 71. Did you agree to that ? —The whole of the Muaupoko were there, and they all assented that it should be sold : no one got up to make any objection ; neither did Mr. McDonald say that perhaps I should not have done that. It was through his suggestion that the thing was done. It was first of all suggested and done by McDonald that these lands should be vested in me. 72. Mr. McDonald suggested to you and the people that the land should be vested in him, and, without knowing what the area was, the tribe consented ?—Yes ; and also that the land we were going to sell to the Government should be vested in me. 73. What was the area of that land?—We said it should be 4,000 acres : the site of the present township. No one objected to that. 74. That was all settled in the meeting-house before going into Court ?—Yes. 75. What was the next thing arranged ? —The other lands were divided amongst the people. 76. Was Mr. McDonald with you in the barn?— Yes; there was no one else to teach us or show us how to act; that was why he was there. His son-in-law was there too. 77. Who was his son-in-law? —Mr. Palmerston, a surveyor. Mr. McDonald was interpreting while the land was being divided out for the tribe. There were 105 acres given to each individual of the tribe —5 acres were to be for roads and 100 acres for the individual. 78. Whose suggestion was this? —I suggested that the land should be divided amongst the people, and McDonald and the Surveyor showed it on the block—los acres for each adult. 79. Was it proposed to give you 105 acres under this agreement or not ?—No. 80. Was it proposed to give the members of Hunia's family 105 acres each ? —Yes. 81. Exclusive of yourself, every man and woman in the tribe was to get 105 acres?— Yes ; all the people in the certificate were to get that, exclusive of myself. 82. Was that before or after the classification of those who came in afterwards?—We let in a certain number out of consideration for them, and for different reasons. Those whom I really regarded as owners got 105 acres. 83. Were all the members of Hunia's family to get 105 acres each ?—Yes. 84. Why were you not to get 105 acres like the rest?—l allowed the men to have this land to satisfy them, and to keep the block by the lake as a place where we would live for ever. 85. Having disposed of that question, what did you do next?— They then spoke about my name in consideration of my trouble with Sievewright and Stout. 86. What was that trouble ?—lt was an account for services in which they were employed with respect to M, with which I had something to do. 87. What did those lawyers do ? Were you advised to get a trust deed executed by the tribes ? —Yes. 88. Did they employ Blake and other interpreters to go through the land and do it ?—Yes. 89. Did you get a bill of costs, amounting to some £3,000 ?—I do not know exactly; it was £3,900 os. 3d., or something like that. 90. Did you admit the bill as correct ?—I did not know whether it was correct, and did not assent to it; but there was the bill, and it had to be paid.