A.—3d

6

More than three months have elapsed since the despatch of Lord Granville, to which I have referred, was written, and inquiries which I have made lead me to believe that, not merely is the French Government pressing forward the scheme of transportation from which the' Colonies apprehend such unhappy results, but that a new service from Havre to Noumea lias been specially chartered in connection with it. I shall be glad, for obvious reasons, to bo able to inform my Government, during the meeting of the Convention at Sydney, what may have been the'reply of the French Government to the representations made by Mr. Piimkoti, in reference to which Mr. Meade wrote that your Lordship felt it to be necessary to obtain immediate explanations from that Government. I have, &c. The Eight Hon. the Earl of Derby. Eobt. Mubbay Smith.

No. 10. The Agent-Genekal for New Zealand to the Colonial Office. Sib, — 7, Westminster Chambers, November 30, 1883. When the Earl of Derby received the Agents-General a few days ago, his Lordship desired me to lay before him, in writing, the grounds on which we had ventured to urge that renewed remonstrances should be addressed to the French Government with respect to the Eocidivistes Bill, before that measure reaches a further stage in the Senate. I understood Lord Derby to say that he desired to have further evidence of the correctness of my statement that the recidivistes would be free, on their arrival in the colony to which they might be sent, as the terms of the Bill appeared to him to provide for their permanent confinement (" internement perpetuol") within the colony. I beg, therefore, to make the following explanation. When the Bill was before the Chamber of Deputies a remarkable incident occurred. The first clause of the Bill had declared, as the amended Bill does now, that the criminals should be confined within the territory of the colony ("la relegation consistera dans rinternement perpctuel sur le territoire dcs colonies ou possessions francaises"). But clause 16 (now 15) provided that permission might be given by the colonial authorities to the relegues to leave the colony (" il pourra etre accorde par l'autorite administrative dcs autorisations exceptionnelles de sortir dcs territoires de la relegation "), such leave not extending beyond six months ; and the next clause provided that any releguS who should be convicted of running away ("tout relegue convaincu d'evasion ou de tentative d'evasion hors de territoires de la relegation ") should be liable to punishment. These clauses passed the Chamber without amendment. When, however, clause 20 (now 19) was proposed, providing, among other things, for the organization of the necessary convict establishments, a deputy (M. Lorois) moved an amendment expressly declaring the absolute freedom of the relegues throughout the colony (" les relegucs jouirons de leur liberte entiere dans toute I'etendua de la colonie dans laquelle ils seront relegues "). He recalled the declarations which had been, made during the debate as to the freedom of the relegues on arrival, saying that these were only expressions of opinion not binding on the Government, and that, although M. Waldeck-Bousseau himself could of course be relied upon to do what he said, Ministries passed away, and his successor might hold contrary opinions; that it was now proposed to have, besides gendarmerie, 200 warders (" surveillants '■') to control the relegues, and it was not easy to see why such a force was wanted to look after people who were to be free ; and that, accordingly, the Chamber ought not to be satisfied with mere declarations about their freedom, but should insert express provision to that effect. But the Minister of the Interior (M. Waldeck-Eousseau) replied that the proposed amendment was quite unnecessary (" est absolument inutile"). The recidivisie would be free from the moment he touched the soil of the colony (" lorsqu'un recidiviste est transpose, il est libre dv moment ou il touche le sol de la colonie ") : as for the establishments in question, they were merely to provide for cases where a recidiviste should come to the Government for employment, or for land; the provisions of the clause were really in favour of the rcUgue, and in no way implied the idea of confinement (" n'impliquent a aucun degre l'idee d'internement"). When you pass a penal law, he added, you need not say in it that those who are no longer subject to any penalty are free : so long as the law does not say that the relegue is not free, it is incontestable that liberty is his right (" dv moment qu'il nest pas dit quo le relegue ne sera pas libre, il est incontestable que c'est la liberte gui est son droit"). Whereupon M. Lorois said that, after such a declaration, binding, as it would now do, not merely M. Waldeck-Eousseau, but the whole Ministry, he was satisfied and would withdraw his amendment. It will be obvious to Lord Derby that the Minister of the Interior could hardly admit an amendment which, in terms, expressly contradicted the preceding clauses of the Bill: indeed, the appearance of the two in juxtaposition would have been an absurdity. But when the Bill was sent back to the Committee for reconsideration before the deuxiemia deliberation, at the end of June, the Committee reported to the Chamber that, while the debates of May had shown the necessity of explaining more clearly the regime to which the relegues would be subject, it had been officially declared over and over again that this regime would be exactly the same as if the convicts had gone to the colony voluntarily, with the sole difference that they would not be able to leave it as an ordinary colonist might do (" comme Font dit dans la discussion a plusieures reprises M. lo Ministre de l'lnterieur et votre rapporteur, le regime dcs relegues dans le lieu de la relegation est exactement celui sous lequel ils vivraient s'ils s'y etaient rendus volontaireinent, avec eette seule difference qu'ils ne pourront pas en sortir comrne le ferait un colon ordinaire"). Their punishment would consist only i%the obligation to stay where they were sent ("leur peine consistera dans l'obligation de rester dans le lieu de la relegation ") : even those who were incorrigible would be treated in exactly the same way (" les incorrigibles .... tout comme les precedents [i.e., the well-behaved] seront libres dans les lieux ou ils auront etc relegues; comme eux, ils no seront astreints qua I'internement dans ces lieux").