1.—9

13

248. Mr. Macandrew.~\ Supposing there was only to be one hulk in the Colony to be used as a training ship, in which port would you put it I —l do not think that would matter much. Perhaps, however, if you drew your boys from all parts of the Colony, it would be better to have the ship in a central port. This harbour would be very suitable, and so would Auckland. 2 19. the, Chairman] Then a boy would earn 10s a month I —Yes, from. 10s to £1. 250. Could these boys easily get employment 1-- 1 think they could. 251. Do you think it would be objectionable to compel vessels to take these lads I —l do not see that it would be so, as long as the number they were compelled to take was limited. There can be no doubt that the scheme would be beneficial, inasmuch as it would have the effect of raising up sailors. 252. Hon. T. Dick] Would it be objectionable, if we insisted that a couple of boys should be carried by each vessel ?—I do not think so. There would be a certain amount of difficulty experienced with regard to what should be done with the lads when the ships reached Home. To meet this difficulty, we have a place of our own at Limehouse. 253. Could they not go into the Sailors' Home 1 —Yes, they might be placed there. 254. The Chairman] If boys from the training school were apprenticed to vessels going short voyages, for how long do you consider they should be apprenticed I —For four years. 255. And would you advise that they should be apprenticed, or do you think the captain should have power to send them Home if they did not suit?—l think it would be better to apprentice them, because then they would be more under discipline. 256. Mr Daniel.] Suppose you took a lad of sixteen years of age from a training ship, do you not think three years would be sufficient to enable him to become an able seaman I —Yes. 257. Mr. Swanson] If a boy had been put into the training school, say for orchard-robbing, would you not consider the magnitude of his offence before refusing to take him on board your vessel I —You would hardly consider him a hardened criminal for an offence of that sort?—No ; of course some consideration would be given to the nature of the offence. 258. The Chairman] If the master of the training ship were a man of good eh iracter, you would take a boy on his recommendation I —Yes ; I would suggest that the master should be a good seaman, and one who would take an interest in the boys. He should also be a firm man who would carry out strict discipline. 359. Mr. Daniel.'] There would be no difficulty in getting a really good man at home ?—No ; but you could get good men in the Colony.

Captain Rose.

11th August, 1882.

APPENDICES AND EVIDENCE. No. 1. Statement by Mr. Habens, in reply to Memorandum from J. Sheelian, Esq., as Chairman of Committee on Naval Training Vessels. 1. Extract from report for 1881 by the Hon. the Minister of Education (E.-l, page itil). — "At the end of March in the present year [1882] the [Kohimarama Naval Training] School was broken up, it being considered that in the present circumstances of the colony no adequate return was obtained for the comparatively large outlay on an institution of this character."—l can find no other statement assigning a reason for the closing of the school. 2. Cost of maintenance, with reference to special expenditure connected with the special character of the school at Kohimarama.—The school was open eighty-eight months, and the expenditure during the whole period was £16,777 16s. 3d., or at the rale of £2,287 i7s. Bd. a year. The expenditure for hire and repair of one schooner, and for building another, amounted to £1,095 lls. Bd. So far as I can judge from the accounts (which have not been s<> kept as to afford means of making the required distinction with any precision), the expenditure on stores has not been greater than it would have been il the school had been simply an industrial school. The staff was, 1 think, more expensive than would have been allowed for an industrial school of the size. The salaries have amounted to nearly £>00 a yeaf. The average number of boys cannot be exactly slated I think sixty-three is the number as nearly as can be ascertained. The salaries at Buruham Industrial School do not amount to so much, though the attendance exceeds two hundred. At Lyttelfon Orphanage, with an attendance of about one hundred, the salaries amount to £525. Perhaps the fairest comparison, however, is between the former and the present salaries at Kohimarama. We now pay £320, the number of boys being about the same as before. 3. Number of boys admitted, and their destination on leaving the school. —The complete return in answer to this question is in preparation. I will send it in in a day or two. The number admitted is about two hundred and fifty. Two years ago one hundred and sixty had left the school, as follows : —Died, 1; expelled, 2; sent to prison, 4 ; discharged when term expired or sent home, 55 ; absconded (not retaken), 4; apprenticed to the sea, 65; apprenticed to other callings, 29; total, 160. The statement I am to supply will account for all the boys that were ever admitted to the school. 4. Cost of vessel, £859 15s. 6d, including small alterations (£3l 2s. 6d.) ; tonnage, 37tVu tons. Cost of running.—l think the schooner was very little used, and I cannot ascertain that she cost more on a cruise than when at anchor. 5. Apprenticeship to sea service was under sections 23 ; 24, and 25 of "The Naval Training Schools Act, 1874" (So. 56).—This recognizes any British ship registered at or trading with the Colony of New Zealand. The manager or the parent entered into indentures of apprenticeship. The boy was always more than twelve years old, and could not be bound beyond the age of eighteen. The form of an indenture contains provisions (with blanks) for maintenance and pay.