H.—B

11

206. Three hundred and eleven acres are stated here. What is the value per acre ? —You would not give 10s. per acre for it if you were buying it; unless a person wanted it, and then they would get a fictitious price. 207. Is it good land ? —lt is passably fair land. 208. How many men are on the grant ? —I do not know. I know there are more than three or four of them. 209. His household is also insufficient?— Yes. In fact, he does not live there at all. 210. Did you object to Te Keene Honao ?—Yes. 211. This is still another block of 2SB acres ? —lt is held in common with others. 212. Do you know that block, Omanaia ?—No. 213. Did you object to Whena te Apa —he claims on fifteen acres ?—There are other claimants besides him. 214. You objected to him ? —Yes. 215. On the same ground ? —Yes. 216. Did you object to Arawa Moka?—Yes. 217. On the same ground ?—Yes. At this stage the Court adjourned until next day at 11 a.m.

Mr. Williams.

March 6, 1879.

Russell. —Eriday, 7th March, 1879. Mr. E. M. Williams's examination continued. The Commission resumed its sittings at 11 a.m. 218. The Commissioner.] I have here, Mr. Williams, a batch of papers attested by Raniera Wharerau. I understood you to say yesterday that you knew little or nothing personally of the value of the properties or even of the validity of the claims made about Hokianga and Mongonui; and you relied in the one case on the Resident Magistrate, Mr. Yon Stiirmer, aud in the other on the Resident Magistrate at Mongonui, Mr. White. In that case I do not see that it is necessary to go over tho whole of the claims in detail. If you know of any exceptional case with respect to those two districts, you can give me the information. No doubt there are claims within your own district about which you have a personal knowledge ? —I have nothing further to say with respect to the Hokianga claims. I relied on information obtained, and not only that, but I had also doubts in my mind as to the validity of these applications, and, acting under the clause I quoted yesterday, I objected to all these names, considering that it was not my duty to prove that I was right, but the applicants' duty to prove that I was wrong. 219. I have taken down the names of the places of abode given in this batch of claims, attested by the person I have named. The interpreter will read them. Perhaps you will recognize the locality. I imagine they belong for the most part to Hokianga. The information with respect to the Ahipara claims you got from Mr. White ? —Yes. 220. Your source of information would be the Resident Magistrate ?—Yes, as to all the Hokianga names —-every one of them. 221. All this batch of 203 names are attested by the same person, Raniera Wharerau?—Yes. 222. Whangaroa would be in your own district; there you did not rely upon Mr. White? —No. I would merely observe with regard to Hokianga claims, that I have information with regard to some of them who are minors. There is one named Hapeta Wi Whangaroa; he stands on the present roll (1878-79). There is Hapeta Hare, No. 254, also a minor. There is Hohepa Waaka, No. 311, also a minor. There is Toia Hone, No. 924, also a minor. There is Tawhai Hone Takerei, No. 882, also a minor. There is Pebikuru, Wiremu te Naihi, No. 658, also a minor. There is Wharerau Penuiki, No. 989, also a minor. There is Wheoki Mancte, No. 998, also a minor. There is also one on the Wliangaroa list that I know of, but Ido not think there are any others. Ido not speak of these names from any knowledge of my own, but I relied on the information given me. 223. By whom ?—By Mr. William Webster. 224. Have you any special information with respect to others in Mr. White's district ?—No ; merely from a general statement of his. He has not particularized any names. He said he knew there were a number of minors on the list. The only blocks of land I have been able to gain any information about in the Hokianga District were those mentioned in the claims sent in. 225. As to block Te Awaroa No. 1, how many claims were there ? —-Sixty-six. 226. What size is that block ? —lt is given as 9,000 acres. Te Awaroa No. 2is 3,000 acres, and there are sixty-four claims. 227. What is the value of To Awaroa No. 1 ? —I could not possibly say the value. 228. The matter cannot possibly be a question of acres, unless the acres are taken in connection with the value of them ? —Mr. William Webster would possibly be able to give a very good idea of the value of these blocks. He has a great deal to do with most of them. 229. There is another hatch of claims here, Mr. Williams, attested by Isaac Williamson.—Of what part ? 231. Here is one from Awanui. —I should imagine these are all in Mr. White's district. 232. Then you relied upon Mr. White for your information in respect of these claims ? —Yes. 233. And is there no district in which you have a personal knowledge?— There is the Whangaroa. 234. Were claims made from that district ? —Yes ; twenty-twro names from Whangaroa. 235. Have you got them there ? —Yes. 236. Twenty-two claims to which you objected, I understand ? —Yes; twenty-two Natives. 237. If you have the list there, perhaps you will give your reasons for the objection in each case ? —I objected to these names on the same grounds I objected to the others, from my own personal knowledge of most of the names. Most of the Natives 1 know, and I felt certain in my own mind that they were not in a position to establish the claims they put iv, aud I objected to them. They were in the vicinity, and could have been present if they had chosen.