Inspector Atchison.

24th Sept., 1878,

Mr.E. L.Barton,

24th Sept., 1378,

Mr.G. E.Barton,

24th Sept., 1878.

Superintendent Shearman.

25th Sept., 1878.

I.—4a,

224. If any of this ring business took place would that also be put in the book. If a man or a woman was tied down would that appear in the book?—I never heard of a woman being tied down. 225. Or a man ?—Only in the cases I have mentioned. 226. If it was done would it be reported ?—lt should be. I generally visit the station about 8 in the evening, and then again about 12 if I am down town. 227. The Chairman] I suppose there are rules for the guidance of the men. Now, supposing a man was tied down to a ring, would that be specially reported to you ? —I think so. 228. Is it a rule that the police are to be allowed to chain men down ? —Tho rule is that if they did they would make a report to the sergeant. 229. Mr. Swanson] AVould not the books show when men were tied down to the rings ?—I do not think so. I only know of two occasions when men were chained down, and then for their own safety. 230. The Chairman] Are the police numbered ? —No. That is they are numbered, but they do not carry their numbers. 231. Would it not be better to have them numbered ? —lt would. I think the Government propose to do it. Elliott L'Esteange Barton, being duly sworn, was examined. 232. Mr. G. E. Barton] Do you remember obtaining from the Minister of Justice for me an authority to inspect the police quarters, stations, and lock-ups in Wellington ?—Tes ; I do. (This is • the authority produced.) 233. Do you remember going with mo to the head station at the Supremo Court Buildings ?—Tes. 234. And inspecting the cells there with me ?—Tes. 235. AVhat did you see in the cells ?—There were rings in the floor of all the cells, except one. The first one we went into, I think, was that used for stores or lumber; tbe first used for prisoners was one which we were informed was used for women, and the ring in that was smaller than those in the others. All the other cells but one contained rings, and in that there was a place in the floor where a ring had been. The policeman said that they had been broken out, or something to that effect. Tou had asked the policemen what the mark was ; they said, " There had been a ring there." We asked whether there were any more cells than those shown us, and they said, "No." 236. How far was tho ring in the cells away from the wall of the cell ? —About two or three flooring planks. 237. Mr. Tole] Six-inch planks, I suppose ?—About that. The rings may have been farther away from the wall than that, but that was about the distance. 238. Mr. Barton] Did you then go with me to the Gaol and inspect the cells there ?—Tes; we went over them with Mr. Read. AYe went all over the Gaol. 239. Did you go into every room ?—Tes ; he showed every room there was. 240. Did you see any door that you did not go into ? —Only the door leading into his own house. 241. Now, were there any rings in any of these cells? —No ; we looked carefully to see if there were any. 242. Do you remember that amongst the cells went into was tho dark cell, or what they call the punishment cell ?—Tes; that is a cell in which, Mr. Read told us, no man is kept longer than fortyeight hours at a time. 243. Was there any ring in that ? —No ; there was nothing but a shelf for the prisoner to lie on. 244. After that, did you, with me, visit the Mauners Street Lock-up ? —Tes ; the lock-up near the fire brigade station. 245. Did you make an inspection of the cells there with me? —Tes. 246. Were there any rings there ? —Tes ;in one cell, I think. The policemen said they had to tie men down to the rings sometimes if they were noisy. Mr. G. E. Barton, M.H.R., on oath, said: On the 29th July last I visited the Manners Street Lock-up, the Lambton Quay Lock-up, and the AVellington Gaol. At the Lambton Quay Lock-up there were three cells, each of which had rings in them. I think there were more than three, but lam sure there were three. In the Gaol there were no rings at all, and at Manners Street Lock-up there was one. The police officer in charge of the chief lock-up (I do not know his name, but that can easily be ascertained, because it was on the 29th July, and about 12 or 1 o'clock when I went there) said distinctly, when he saw me looking at the rings, that they were not often used, but they were used for persons who were outrageous, or who were very turbulent, to restrain them. I wish to add this: I went to the chief police station I think on the same 29th July, and asked to see a book kept at the station, showing the charges on which persons were locked up. I w 7anted information about a case now before the Committee. The officer in charge asked me what day I wanted. I told him I did not know the exact day, but that it was about two years ago. He told me he had not the book. I asked him where it was, and he said I had better ask the Inspector of Police about it. I asked if the Inspector was in. He said he believed he was not. I then asked him if the book was in the Inspector's office. He said, " No, the book is in Mr. Baker's charge." I asked him what Mr. Baker. He said, "Mr. Baker, the Clerk of the Resident Magistrate's Court." I asked him if he was sure about that, and I understood him to say he was, but I did not quite catch his answer, so that lam not entitled to speak positively. I went in to Mr. Baker. I did not see him when I first went in, but I called again, and then saw him. I described what I wanted, but I forget what his answer was ; but I could not get to see the book, nor a direct statement from Mr. Baker as to whether he had it in his charge.

AVednesday, 25th September, 1878. Mr. Shearman, Superintendent of Police, being duly sworn, was examined. 247. The Chairman] Are there any rules as to the mode of conducting inquiries when complaints are made against the police ?—Tes.

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