I—4a

9

Mr. Monaghan.

24th Sept., 1878.

Mr. Buchanan.

24th Sept., 1878.

Inspector Atchison.

24th Sept., 1878.

204. Tou do not know where she lives ?—No. I might state that this charge appears to be rather a peculiar one. McCarthy at that time was a very troublesome, rowdy fellow 7, but latterly he has improved, and I am sure that at that time I should have no wish whatever to have assisted him to escape from the law ; rather the other way. He had been repeatedly up before the Police Court, and I had had occasion many times to tell the Bench what a bad character he was. There was no doubt he was at that time a very rowdy, rough character. 205. Have you had any "falling-out " with Pilmer? —No. Mr. Pilmer has always been assisted to the utmost by the police, but he was in the habit of taking constables off their beat to go along with him to assist him in his work, without even informing the police at head-quarters of what he was going to do; and one day I told him that, if at any time he wanted a constable, lie should come to the station and see the sergeant in charge for the time being, when ono would be sent with him wherever he wanted to go. I should very much like to know why these charges have been kept treasured up so long without being brought forward at the time, when they might have been properly disposed of. 206. The Chairman (to Mr. Pilmer)], Perhaps you might inform the Committee why you did not make these complaints earlier, as Mr. Monaghan suggests ? —lf the persons aggrieved did not make their complaints, why should I make them ? 207. Mr. Barton (to Mr.'Monaghan)]. Do I understand you to say that you entirely failed in getting information from the girl as to what the complaint was ? —The girl told me that McCarthy had insulted her sister ; that is all I could get from her. There are so many of such complaints brought forward to the police by persons who quarrel with their neighbours, that it is impossible to attend to them all. 208. Mr. Tole] Did Pilmer ever tell you that he had held the man down for an hour waiting for the police to come? —No. [Mr. Barton, having searched the files of the Evening Post, said the letter was not to be found, but subsequently he discovered the letter in the Wellington Independent of the 11th December, 1871,.and read the letter to the Committee.] John Buchanan, being duly sworn, was examined. 209. The Chairman] What are you?—A police constable. 210. Where are you stationed? —At Wanganui. 211. Do you recollect Mr. Pilmer speaking to you about your treatment of a prisoner at the Manners Street Lock-up? —Never. 212. Not early one morning, say between 5 and G o'clock? —No; I have not the least recollection of it. 213. Do you not recollect his complaining to you of your striking a prisoner with your baton? — Never. 214. [Mr. Pilmer's evidence was here read over to witness.] Tou remember nothing of that ?— No ; I only remember one case of trouble with a prisoner at the Te Aro Police Station. I remember one morning, when on duty between 5 and 9 o'clock, that there was a little bother. It is a constable's <luty first thing in the morning to see that the prisoners in the lock-up roll up their blankets and clean up their cells previously to the men being marched down to the Police Station on Lambton Quay, ready for Court hours. One morning I started a man up and told him to roll up his blankets. He did so, and then I examined the cell and found he had made a closet of the floor (and it was in a dreadful mess), instead of using the bucket set there for the purpose. I said, "Look what you have done " (knowing it had been- done that night, because everything was clean the day before); "clean it up as soon as possible." He refused, and said I could do it. I said, "Surely you don't expect me to do it." He still refused to do it, and I went out, locking the door, to see the watchhouse-keeper, Doran. I told him what had taken place, and asked his advice. He said, " Oh, you had better try him again." I then got a tub or bucket and a mop and brought water, and asked him to do it. He still refused, and I shook him a little. I pitched tbe writer all over the cell, aud then the man scrubbed the place out. That is tho only occasion on which I ever had an argument with any prisoner. As for me beating a man, I never had any occasion to do it. I could not stand by and see a man so beaten, much less do it myself. 215. Did this man attack you in any way ? —No. 216. Did you ever say he flew at you like a little tiger ? Did you say that to Mr. Pilmer ? —I never spoke to Pilmer nor he to me in his lifetime about beating a prisoner, and if he had made such remarks I must have remembered it. Inspector Atchison, being duly sworn, was examined. 217. Mr. Swanson] Are there rings in the floor of the cells? —There are. 218. Is it the custom to chain men down to these rings ? —Sometimes we get hold of madmen, and they are tied down to prevent them injuring or destroying themselves, but that occurs very seldom. AYe had a man in some time ago who, when the constable went to the cell, lilted up a bucket and tried to strike him down. Such a man ought to be tied down. Wo have not used the rings for years, but tbe man in charge of the station, who has been in the force for sixteen years, can give more information on that point than I can. 219. AVhen were the rings put in ? —Tears ago. 220. There are rings in both lock-ups ? —Tes. 221. AVhen a man comes in to the lock-up what happens ?—He is charged, and then searched and put in a cell. 222. Is a report entered in the book ?—-Tes, his name is entered in a book, by whom arrested, for what arrested, the hour of his arrival, and the property taken from him. That is signed by the constable arresting, and countersigned by the man in charge of the lock-up at the time. 223. It would be all in the book to be shown next day ? —Tes. 2—l. 4a.