1.-4.

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810. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] Has it not been customary that, when prisoners were suffering from delirium tremens, they are sent to gaol uutil they could work it off? —That is done very often. 811. That throws work upon you ? —Yes ; and it throws a lot of extra work upon the warders. 812. Are they examined before being remauded to the gaol ? —I thiuk they are remanded without any examination whatever. 813. It is suspected they are suffering from incipient delirium tremens, and they are sent to gaol ? —They are remanded without any examination, or medical information being asked. 814. The Chairman.] Is the ventilation good ? —I should imagine it is in the cells ; but when the day-rooms are crowded I have known the atmosphere to be dreadful to enter. I have seen them so bad that it was impossible for me to go in aud remain five minutes. 815. What would it be like on a wet day? —The stench was really dreadful. 816. Hon. Mr. Fox.] The rooms are some size, are they not ?—They are very small for the number of people, They give as much accommodation as they can by opening the passage into the corridors. 817. Is there any attempt at separation of offenders in those day-rooms, or are they all herded together?— They all herd together, on one side the hard-labour gang, on the other the lighter-sentenced men. 818. Is there any attempt to separate first offenders ? —No; no provision for that. 819. Have you sickness on the women's side? —A 7ery little. There is very little sickness in the gaol at all. It is a wonderfully healthy position, and the sanitary arrangements, because there has been no sickness. 820. Hon. Mr. Fox.] Is the water good ? —Very good—it was from a well; but latterly they have got the water laid on. 821. Do you consider that wholesome water? —I have heard no complaints, and I always considered that wholesome wrater. I always found the people healthy. 822. The Chairman.] Is the service water filtered ?—No. 823. Is the sewer good in the gaol? —I think they run away into the gully. The internal arrangements are such that the drains run away into the gully at the back. The Gaoler has a garden, and he takes all the sewage and buries it; and, as his garden is much below the level of the gaol, I think there could not be any better arrangement. 824. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] Is the garden private property? —I suppose it is private property. It is on Government property ; it is within the bounds of the reserve. 825. But is it for the Gaoler's private use ? —I think so ;he has had a great deal of trouble in making it. 826. The Chairman.] Do prisoners work at it ? —I have occasionally seen some of the old men, but none of the able-bodied men. 827. Hon. Mr. Fox.] It is the Governor's garden, is it not? —Yes. 828. The Chairman.] Have there been many deaths in the gaol ? —Very few. 829. Have you ever had any gaol fever ? —I have had no epidemic of any kind. 830. Do you consider the scale of rations a reasonable one ? —I cannot remember it just now. 831. Has your attention been ever drawn to any insufficiency ? —Certainly not; I have heard no complaint from the men. 832. Do you know whether or not there is too much of anything ? —I do not know. 833. Hon. Mr. Fox.] You are certain there is not too little ? —I should have heard of it, if so. 834. The Chairman.] I suppose if anything w rere wrong they would complain ? —I think so. 835. Do they complain to you ?—They scarcely ever complain. I think the prisoners are very well satisfied. 836. Hon. Mr. Fox.] I suppose they would almost certainly complain if there were reason ? — Oh, certainly. 837. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] How often do you go to the gaol?— Twice a week. I make a point of going once a week on Tuesday, while my assistant goes on Saturday. 838. You were Provincial Surgeon ?—Yes. 839. AVas the gaol put under you charge ?—I do not remember; I have no record of it. 840. What is your present office ? —Well, I really do not know: lam Medical Officer in Charge of the AVellington Hospital. 841. Suppose the gaol were placed under a medical officer, w rould your office then continue ? —lt would cease. 842. The Chairman.] As a rule, what is the physical effect of imprisonment upon the prisoners ?— Improved health. 843. In most prisoners ? —Yes; unless there has been some organic weakness before. 844. AVhat do you attribute that to —regularity of life ? —Yes ; regularity of living and food. 845. Hon. Mr. Fox.] Aud sobriety ? —Yes ; and sobriety. 846. The Chairman.] Have you had your attention drawn to the moral effect of the sentences on the prisoners ? Have you noticed the men who have been in gaol—what their subsequeut conduct has been ?—Several cases have come under my notice in which I have considered that the men were very much improved. It so happens that within the last twelve months I have noticed two such men. Both have turned out to be steady workers and industrious men. One of them I found out was in gaol some fifteen or eighteen years ago, in chains weighing about thirty pounds weight. He certainly has broken out again with drink. He was for twelve months a wardsmau in the hospital, and from there he went to the asylum, and behaved steadily, until, unfortunately, he fell in love with some woman who behaved falsely to him ; and then he attempted to hang himself. 847. What was his original sentence ? —I do not know; but he was a very violent, passionate man. At present a man is in the hospital, not on pay. He is assisting there. I know he was convicted and sentenced for robbery. 848. Have you, of your own knowledge, noticed any bad effects from the association of prisoners sentenced for first offences ? Are they the worse for it ? —No, I cannot remember any ; but I think they have generally been old offenders that have been imprisoned.

Mr. Johnston,

22nd Aug., 1878.