MUSEUM AND SCIENTIFIC DEPARTMENTS COMMITTEE (REPORT OF); TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (Mr. G. M. THOMSON, Chairman.)

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1912 Session II, I-07

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Session 11. 1912, NEW ZEALAND.

MUSEUM AND SCIENTIFIC DEPARTMENTS COMMITTEE (REPORT OF); TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. (Mr. G. M. THOMSON, Chairman.)

Report brought up 10th September, 1912, and ordered to be printed.

ORDER OF REFERENCE. Extract from the Journals of the House of Representatives. Wednesday, the 14th Day ov August, 1912. Ordered, " That a special Committee bo appointed to consider the following questions : (1) The constitution of a Scientific Board of Advice to which the publication of all scientific work undertaken by various Government Departments should be referred; (2) the issue of all Government scientific publications in future in certain uniform sizes, instead of their being brought out, as is done now, by the various Departments in all manner of forms and sizes; (3) the placing of the management of the Dominion Museum in the hands of a Board of Trustees, as is done in the case of the Australian and other museums, which might, however, be the same body as is suggested in paragraph (1) : such Committee to have power to call for persons and papers : three to be a quorum : and to consist of Mr. Anderson, Mr. Bell, Mr. Ell, Hon. Mr. Herdman, Mr. Myers, Dr. A. K. Newman, Mr. Russell, Mr. Sidey, and the mover."— (Mr. G. M. Thomson.)

BEPOET. The Museum and Scientific Departments Committee has the honour to report that, in accordance with the order of reference, it has met to consider the matters submitted to it, and has taken evidence in connection therewith. It now begs to submit the following recommendations, which have been agreed to unanimously : — (1.) That a scientific Board of Advice be set up to which the publication of all scientific and historical work undertaken by Government Departments should be referred. (2.) That the Board consist of the Minister of Internal Affairs (ex officio), three members to be nominated by the Governor, and three members to be elected annually by the Board of Governors of the New Zealand Institute. (3.) That the scientific and historical publications include the Transactions and Proceedings of the New Zealand Institute, the Bulletins of the Geological Survey, the Annual Reports of all the scientific branches of the Government Departments, and such scientific and_ historical works as the Government may, on the recommendation of the Board from time to time, order to be printed. (4.) That these publications be brought out in certain uniform sizes to be agreed upon by the Board. (5.) That the Dominion Museum continue under the Minister of Internal Affairs. (6.) That the proposed National Gallery of Art be a department of the Museum. (7.) That there be established in connection with the Museum a National Library of Scientific Works,' within which should be gathered all scientific literature available now belonging to Government Departments, and also if possible that of the New Zealand Institute. (8.) That a Board of Advice and Control be established for the combined institution, of which the Minister of Internal Affairs should be the President, and upon which nine other members should be appointed, including the Mayor of Wellington, the President of the New Zealand Institute, and such other persons as may be nominated by. the Governor. All resolutions of the Board to be subject to the veto of the Minister, who shall be responsible to Parliament for the administration. . (9.) That the Government be requested to promote legislation ()f necessary) to give effect to the above recommendations. (10.) That the Committee regards the erection of a new Museum as a matter of great urgency. 10th September, 1912. Geo. M. Thomson, Chairman.

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. Friday, 23rd August, 1912. Augustus Hamilton, Director of the Dominion Museum, examined. (No. 1.) 1. The Chairman .] Do you consider there is any necessity for any arrangement of tho scientific work in the publications of the Government throughout the Dominion ? —Yes. I think it would be more convenient to the people of this Dominion if they could obtain scientific reports on various matters, such as the Sandhills Report, or the Forestry Report, in book form instead of having to look for them in the Appendices to the Journals of the House. I think the Appendices to the Journals might contain a summary of scientific reports, and state where the full reports could be obtained. It would lessen the cost of the Journals, and revenue could be derived from the sale of the book containing the reports, which would not be the case if the reports were merely printed in the Appendices to the Journals of the House. 2. Are you satisfied with the present government of the Dominion Museum? —I am satisfied with the way Ministers have treated the Museum so far as they have been able to do it; but I consider that a Board would be in a better position to look after the interests of the Museum than the Minister, as at present, with no Board. I may instance the Board of Trustees such as they have in Sydney, Melbourne, the British Museum, the Field Museum in America, and other museums, who are in a position to go to the public direct if they desire to raise funds outside. These Boards can ask for help for their museums, while the Minister cannot do that, nor can the Director, and consequently no one is interested in the Museum here. I think it would be an aid to the Minister, who may not have any scientific attainments, if he could obtain advice from, time to time. A Board of Trustees would give greater force to the Minister, and I think persons who intend giving presentations to the Museum, or helping it in any way, would sooner give a donation to a permanent Board than to the Government, which is changed from time to time, with the Ministers. Again, I think in the matter of rules and regulations and general administration it would be better to adopt some more severe system than is in force at the present time. The rules and regulations of the different museums, including the old regulations, are much more severe than any we have at the present time, and I think it would be an advantage to the Museum to bring such regulations and by-laws into force. 3. Would you give this Board power to employ the officials, and so on? —That, of course, would be subject to the approval of the Minister. The Board would simply recommend to the Minister, and the appointments would still be Ministerial appointments. The Government would have a preponderating representation on the Board. I would recommend a certain number of members of the House of Representatives, and some outside persons from scientific bodies and from bodies which are known to take an interest in science should compose the Board. 4. Mr. Anderson.] It would be a very large Board?—l think that is necessary. You will see what is done in the case of the Australian Museum. 5. Hon. Mr. Herdman.] How r is that constituted? —It is constituted by Act of Parliament. 6. What is the personnel of the Board? —The personnel of the Board includes high officials such as the Chief Justice, the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney-General, the Colonial Treasurer, the Auditor-General, and the President of the Medical Board. But the only officers who attend and who are really considered important members of the Board are the Auditor-General and Government Architect. 7. There are some prominent citizens and scientists on the Board?— Yes. 8. Do they attend? —Yes, they attend largely. 9. Is it found that their advice is of very great service?--—Yes, very great service. The report of the Trustees of the Australian Museum shows the attendance during 1909 as follows: Crown Trustee, J. C. Cox, Esq., M.D., P.L.S., C.M.Z.S., 19; Official Trustees—His Honour the Chief Justice, 0; Hon. the Colonial Secretary, 0; Hon. the Attorney-General, 0; Hon. the Colonial Treasurer, 0; the Auditor-General (Mr. J. Vernon), 12; the President of the Medical Board (Sir P. S. Jones), 6; Executive Trustees —H. H. B. Bradley, Esq., 16; Surgeon-General W. D. Campbell Williams, 2; Professor W. A. Haswell, 6; Professor T. W. Edgeworth David, 4; Professor T. J. Wilson, 5; T. Storie Dixson, 17; W. H. Hargraves, 19; E. A. Rennie, 7; Hugh Pollock, 13; Reuter E. Roth, 14; Eric Sinclair, M.D., 15; W. L. Vernon, 11. The number of meetings during the year was eleven ordinary, one special, and seventeen committee. 10. Mr. Anderson.] Are those gentlemen who attended so regularly scientific men?— Yes, all scientific men interested in the Museum. 11. Does that not go to show that instead of appointing ordinary officials it would be better to appoint purely scientific men as members of the Board? —I think it would be better from a Government point of view to have representation on the Board. I might mention that at the present time no annual report is required for the Museum, and the Museum has no opportunity of being represented in Parliament by an annual report. 12. The Chairman.] Do you not report at all to your official head?—No, there has been no report since I came here, some nine years ago. 13. Mr. Sidey.] I want to know whether you are dissatisfied with your present condition under Government control? —Not so far as the conditions will allow, I think they could be made far better under the proposal now before the Committee,

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14. What do you mean by "as far as the conditions will allow"? —Wβ cannot approach the public now as we could by a Board of Trustees. 15. Are you dissatisfied with the amount of money which has been placed at your disposal? —No; so far I have had ample funds provided for the Museum as it is. For some years I have refrained from asking for money on account of insufficient accommodation. 16. Have you made any request which has been declined?— No. I am not referring to the building. 17. I am referring to the purchase of articles. In what respect do you think improvement could be effected by Hie substitution of a Board of Control? —It would give the Museum a better standing in the Dominion. It is a Dominion Museum and not a Wellington Museum. 18. You think you would get more money in the way of donations? —Yes. 19. Under the Australian Museum arrangements all officers and servants of the Museum the Board may appoint, and they have the entire management and supervision of the affairs and properties of the Museum. Do you intend that that should be done under your proposal?— No; my intention was that the final appointment should rest with the Government. I think it would be very unlikely that the Government would not appoint any one duly recommended by the Board of Trustees. 20. You think the Board should be purely a Board of advice?— Yes, and that they should direct the internal management of the affairs of the Museum. 21. And the moneys required from time to time? —There would be an annual vote which would be placed to the credit of the Board of Trustees. If it were not expended the balance would be available next year. That is not the position now, because if a sum is not expended this year it lapses. In that way the Board of Trustees would make provision for anything they saw offering. 22. You suggest that the Government should make a grant to the Board? —Yes, and in the case of any large expenditure which the Board contemplated, they would apply to the Government in the ordinary way and outside the ordinary expenditure. 23. What would be your position—would you still be employed by the Government? —Yes. 24. Would you take your instructions from the Board? —Yes. 25. Would you not be amenable to the Minister at all? —The Minister would be one of the Board. 26. Can you tell us of any arrangements to the same effect in the control of museums?— Yes, Sydney, Melbourne, and, I think, the Queensland Museum. lam not, however, certain about the Queensland Museum. 27. Mr. Bussell.] Is there any more need to set up a Board of Control in your Department than there is in the Government Printing Office, which employs some six hundred people?—l hardly think they are on the same footing. 28. Why not?—A museum should appeal to the public. 29. Are you proposing to send out subscription lists to provide funds for the Museum, or to have garden fetes? —Not exactly. Institutions of this kind require outside assistance. Many museums have outside societies, the members of which subscribe so-much a year for the benefit of the institution, and the sums raised go to assist the museum in the purchase of articles which the Government cannot afford the funds for. 30. You are still looking for the Government to provide funds? —Yes, the ordinary annual grant. 31. In what respect do you think the management of the institution would be improved if it were taken out of the hands of the Minister of Internal Affairs and given over to the Board ?— I think that a large body would have more interest in such an institution, and they would be able to assist the Minister in any case of doubt. 32. In what way do you consider the present institution has broken down? —In no way. 33. Is it not a fact that directly I assumed control of the institution as Minister of Internal Affairs I gave you a second nightwatchman for the protection of the institution? —Certainly. 34. Is it not also a fact that in the few weeks during which I held office I had arranged for various matters in connection with the whole of the buildings and site? —Yes. 35. Everything wanted for the improvement of this Museum during my term as Minister of Internal Affairs was done? —Yes. 36. Do you not think that as this Board will probably only meet once in three months, questions of urgency can much better be dealt with by the Minister, who is able at once to give his decision on any important point and have the matter settled without waiting for a meeting of the Board of Control? —With regard to meetings, the general practice is to have them monthly, and to report recommendations. With regard to the Minister always being available, that is certainly so; but in case of his absence from Wellington, the Chairman of the Board or probably his deputy would be able to act. There is no great point in that, because I think the Minister under the present arrangement is quite available. 37. I see that, under the Act that controls the Australian Museum, the Board which is proposed to be set up would have full power of expenditure, and would issue recommendations for the whole of the money that is spent. Do you not realize that where it comes to the question of expenditure the immediate control and responsibility of the Minister to Parliament is a much better protection to the public than would be the case under a Board, which might incur large expenditure without authority?—l understand that to mean in practice that the Government vote a sum on the meeting of Parliament to the Board, and they cannot exceed that without applying again to Parliament. All accounts are subject to Government audit previous to the annual report, in which full details are presented. 38. Mr. Ell.] It may be that you would have a Director who had a special interest in some scientific question, and who would not have that broad sympathy which is absolutely essential for a museum which embraces all subjects?—That is «o.

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39. And your opinion is that a Board representing historical and scientific interests and various sciences would show more interest in the management of the Institute—would represent new ideas and work in new directions in which you are largely interested : that is the idea you hare?—Yes. 40. And having the different interests represented on the Board it would be a great help to you and through you to the Minister?—-Yes. 41. Hon. Mr. Herdman.] There is no doubt that the Boards act satisfactorily in Sydney and M elbourne ?—Certainly. 42. Then I understand from yon that the same principle works well in the British Museum? — Yes, a Board of Trustees. 43. Is there any analogy at all between the Printing Office and the Museum?—No. 44. The Museum is a purely scientific institution?—Yes. 45. And following up the question asked by Mr. Ell just now, J take it that you consider you would be assisted in the control of the Museum by a Board of gentlemen taking an interest in scientific matters, and that you would be able to glean advice from a wider field: is that so? —Yes. 46. While you are Director of the Museum you are under the control of the Minister of Internal Affairs, and you feel that you would be able to perform your duties better if you were helped by other gentlemen who took an interest in science?—Outside the staff? 47. Yes, outside the staff!—Yes. 48. For instance, Professor David, I take it, would be of tremendous assistance to the people in Sydney?—Yes. 49. Having the assistance of the members of a Board you would be bringing your institution into closei , touch with the people : is that not so?—That is so. 50. Mr. Russell appears to object to Ministerial control being done away with, but would that be so—the Minister of Internal Affairs w r ould still be in control?—Yes, he would still be in control. I do not want to follow the New South Wales Act in that detail. I would prefer the final control of the Minister. 51. At any rate, the Board cannot spend more than Parliament grants?—No. 52. Mr. Ell.] Suppose you had a Director of the Museum who was deeply interested in fish, such as Mr. Waite, of the Christchuvch Museum : would it not be a great help to the Director to have some one also who is equally interested in Maori history?—lt is the duty of the Museum to cater for all scientific classes, and if there were a specialist who was working to the disadvantage of the public the attention of the Hoard would be drawn to it. 53. Mr. Anderson.] The conditions of the Museum are not at all ■Satisfactory so far as the exhibits are concerned?—Not at all; the accommodation at present is quite inadequate. 54. If you had had this Board of advice you w r ould have been able to induce the Government to assist you in some direction?— Yes. I am pleased to be able to say that I have had every assistance from the Ministers who have been in charge of this Department. 55. Mr. Russell.] Why is it that you have never made any report to the Minister with regard to the Museum?—The reason is that under the New Zealand Institute Act, which was altered in 1903, the whole arrangement of tilings was scattered. The last report of the Museum was in 1893, and a report headed " Thirty-second Annual Report " was made in 1898. but this was really the Thirtieth Report of the New Zealand Institute'and Geological Survey. After that the Museum was placed under the Minister of Internal Affairs, and no report was presented. 56. Have you forwarded an annual report to the Minister?—No. 57. Do you not think that if you had forwarded an annual report containing your statement o,f all the points and recommendations that in the ordinary course had occurred the Minister would have laid that before the House?—I have no doubt he would. 58. Then, why do you regard it as necessary to have a Board of Control in order to secure the presentation by yourself of a reporF?-—The report would probably be that of the Board. I should report to the Board, and the)' would report to Parliament. 59. I suppose you are aware that all heads of Departments forward annual reports to their Minister ?—Yes. 60. Why should there be any exception in your case?—I do not know. 61. Do you mean that the report has not been asked for?—l have never been called upon for one. It was not given by ray predecessors except under the old system done away with in 1903.

Thursday, 29th Augcst, 1912. Percy Gates Mougan, Director of Geological Survey, examined. (No. 2.) 1. The Chairman.] We would like to know, Mr. Morgan, the mode in which your annual reports are brought out, to whom they are presented, and what provision is made for the printing of them—that is, under whose recommendation they are printed—also any information you can give us on that point?—We publish an animal report every year, and besides that two or three bulletins. These are sent in to the Under-Secretary and approved by him, and they are sent by the Under-Secretary to the Government Printer. 2. The Under-Secretary for?— Mines. 3. Are you alone responsible for the matter that is in your bulletins.-—I suppose, practically, I am responsible for that. I go over them, of course. All that goes from our office to the Printing Office T read and revise.

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4. Does anybody exercise any supervision over documents of your own? Are they held over at all? —They usually remain in the Under-Secretary's office for some length of time, and finally reach the Government Printer, and it may be some time before the Government Printer sets them up in type. Of course, there are considerable and often very aggravating delays in the printing of these publications. We often receive them at irregular intervals and at very inconvenient times; for instance, 1 may be away in the field. 5. But you alone are responsible for .the material put forth in your bulletins—the report, of course, is a different thing? —-Yes. 6. What form, do these bulletins take? What do they refer to as distinguished from the report?-—The annual report is simply an account of the year's work. Very few geological particulars are given in the annual report. The bulletins are reports on various areas of a few hundred square miles. They are accompanied by elaborate maps, and are intended to be so complete that it will not be necessary again to go over these areas in any detail. It will be necessary to do fresh work only as fresh discoveries are made. 7. Mr. Sidey.] Do you think it would be an advantage to have the information that is supplied by your Department published in a different way —say, in a separate pamphlet or book together with other scientific reports?—l think it would be a good thing to have a uniform system of publication —a uniform-sized publication. 8. It has been suggested that sometimes there are important matters referred to in annual reports that are lost sight of? — I do not think we lose sight of anything important. 9. 1 mean, the public generally?— That would go into the bulletin as a general rule. 10. Anything to which public attention should be directed is republished in the bulletin? —Yes. 11. J suppose there is as much public attention drawn to your special bulletins as there would be to any general publication?—l think so; but for reference puiposes it would be advisable to have a certain amount of uniformity in the scientific publications relating to New Zealand. 12. Mr. Russell. \ One of the things we want to do is to cut down the printing account. Do I understand that at the present time a lot of stuff coming from your office is printed twice over —in the Appendices and then in bulletin form? —Hardly, because our annual report is very brief. 13. What is the size of the bulletin I— Particulars about the Waihi District, for instance, would make a fairly long publication of a hundred or one hundred and fifty pages. The annual report is only fifteen or sixteen pages, and that would deal with several districts and with other matters. It is merely a summary of operations. 14. The bulletin consists only partly of what is printed in the Appendices of the House? — Yes. There is really very little repetition. John Mackay, Government Printer, examined. (No. 3.) 1. Tht Chairman.] There is one point I would like to ask you about : would printing these papers in uniform sizes, as you suggest in your report—in demy quarto and royal octavo —cause any difference in expense as compared with foolscap? Would it either cheapen or make the publications more expensive? —I do not think it would affect the cost to any extent. 2. Mr. Russell.] Neither one way or the other? —Neither one way or the other. 3. You would have a much greater number of pages in the make-up?— Yes. i. The Chairman.] What I mean is this : if you have a number of publications coming out in the two sizes as suggested instead of their being printed as now and scattered throughout other publications, would it make any difference in. cost to the general account? —It would be cheaper to issue them as now in foolscap folio form, but T have not considered that. In foolscap folio you get a larger page, and therefore a larger amount of matter in the page. 5. I mean, to take them out in the form they are now printed in order to make them accessible to general use. At present they are buried with other documents. If these are withdrawn from the present form of publication and brought out in one or other of the two sizes—demy quarto or royal octavo —would it make any difference in the cost?— Not a great deal. Octavo would be a little more costly. 6. Of course, you would have them issued in a form that could be bought?— They arc bought now. 7. You mention in your report that no other colony prints its papers in this form : but you know the publications of the "Smithsonian," of Washington? —Yes, but even their publications vary in size. 8. There are only two sizes, I think? —Yes. 9. But they bring out the different Departments such as Agricultural Chemistry, Forestry, Fisheries, Geological Surveys—they are all under the same form?— Yes. Is that Smithsonian a Government institution 1 10. Practically it is? —These are the two sizes that I recommend [produced]. This is royal octavo, and this is demy quarto. 11. I may explain that the New Zealand Institute selected royal octavo because the scientific societies at Home bring out all their publications in that form. Would it be possible to employ a portion of your staff regularly upon the bringing out of these scientific publications? T mean by that that it is desirable that scientific works should be produced by experts. It is not every printer that could set them up ?—Owing to the introduction of the type-setting machine the manuscript or copy has now to be prepared before it goes to the compositor. The men who prepare that manuscript are educated men who are preparing copy for the printers every day, and they do it in such a manner as to make it very clear to the compositor. Then, the reader who reads the matter after it is set up by the compositor is also a man who is accustomed to reading

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such matter, and it does not matter whether the compositor is acquainted with the particular work or not: his work is checked by the supervisor and the reader. 12. They are employed in your office on ordinary work?— There is not sufficient scientific work done to keep them at that alone. 13. Would there not be if all scientific matter were brought under one head? —No. 14. Mr. Bussell.] You recognize that it would be a tremendous advantage to the country in the distribution of literature in other parts of the world if we had a standard form like royal octavo? —No doubt. 15. The people would then have this matter in uniform size collected in the libraries, and it would-be an advantage to exchange with other countries? —Yes. 16. You are aware that the form in which our work appears is rather unfair to the libraries? —Yes. 17. To my mind, it is not so much the printing as the binding, and 1 would like you to give the Committee your idea of the matter. Do you think it would be practicable, in order to cheapen the cost, if we were to issue this material in stiff paper covers, and then leave those who take them up to bind them themselves? What proportion do you think that would reduce the cost by : supposing you take a royal octavo of, say, 500 pages and you bind it in cloth, what increase would the cost of binding in cloth be over and above the paper? —The cost would run to about ss. a volume 18. For each copy? —It depends upon the amount of tooling and finishing. 19. Suppose it was done With block binding , and there was no attempt made to put anything in gold letters —or even with paper slips gummed on ? —Our publications are issued now in the form you mention. Take the "Transactions of the New Zealand Institute." The majority of the volumes of the Transactions are issued simply with paper covers. A certain number are bound, but a very small number. 20. Now, that is just my point : do you think it would be practicable for the Government to simply have a small number of the copies bound —that is, for those on record in the Department and those for record in the library—and then send the publications to members of Parliament and others in paper covers, and let them take the responsibility of binding them if they thought them of sufficient value? —There would be a considerable saving in that, of course. 21. A tremendous saving if you take it at ss. a book. As a matter of fact, if you have 1,000 copies the binding of them would cost quite as much as for printing the whole thing?— .lust about it. 22. That is the point 1 wish to emphasize : we can get the advantage of this without the heavy cost which would be incurred by the Government in the binding. For instance, Christchurch and other places ought to have the responsibility of binding the books if we give them the matter? —They do that now. We do not supply bound copies of the Appendices or Hansard. 23. There is only one question-involved, and that is the publication of the maps and pictures that frequently accompany the books. Of course, you are able to do that in the larger size; but do you think it would be practicable to issue the literary part of these publications without the maps and pictures, and by a reference state that they could be obtained separately?— That could be done, certainly; but these maps particularly are so frequently referred to in the text that the letterpress would be of very little use without them. 24. With regard to putting on a separate staff for scientific work, your answer is that the whole of the staff has to be under one control so that they can be used for any emergency?— Yes. 25. And you could not set aside a particular part of the staff for that particular purpose? —That is so. Chakles Edwakd Adams, M.Sc, F.R.A.S., Government Astronomer, Secretary to the Surveyors' Board, and Chief Computer of the Lands and Survey Department, examined. (No. 4.) 1. The Chairman. ] You desire to give some information in connection with State scientific publications? —Yes; I just wish to put in a few papers. I have brought up for the use of the Committee a set of the scientific publications of the Lands and Survey Department, which I can leave with the Committee if necessary. They are all published in the one size—the foolscap. This is the annual report [produced]. The Appendices are of a technical nature covering a variety of subjects. There is one on the Magnetic Observatory and Magnetic Survey Branch at Christchurch, but this does not include the seismological. records of Mr. Hogben at Wellington, which are published sometimes in the " Transactions of the New Zealand Institute," but only occasionally, as they are not regularly published by it. 2. Can you tell me where Mr. Hogben's records go?—No, as this Department has nothing to do with their observations. • 3. They are published outside New Zealand? —Mr. Hogben told me that he has sent them away, and that is one point where a Board would straighten up matters. The size of the foolscap reports is very inconvenient. It is quite unusual to have scientific books printed in foolscap size. We publish besides a report on the measurement of the base lines in New Zealand, with a view to the reobservation of our triangulation, and that is a very valuable report which we send to all interested surveyors. It is in very great demand outside New Zealand. We publish another technical appendix in connection with the mathematical adjustment of the triangulation, which forms part of the work of the Department, and is now being carried out by trained officers. We publish another report on the Surveyors' Board which conducts the examination of surveyors in New Zealand in conjunction with the Australian Surveyors' Board; whilst Appendix V relates to the tidal survey, which has been recently established in New Zealand, and gives the results of the analyses of the tide records of the ports of New Zealand, and also the predictions of the tides, which are republished in the British Admiralty time-tables and also in the " New Zealand

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Nautical Almanac." The tide surveys and the predicted tides in Auckland and Wellington are practically brought up to 1914. That is an indication of some of the technical work that generally oomes out under cover of the Survey Report itself, and these are all of an annual nature. In addition there are other publications issued by the Lands and Survey Department from time to time, and usually published in the same form. 4. Do you think it would be desirable that these publications should all be brought out in some uniform size?— Undoubtedly, in the majority of cases. 5. The suggestion by the Government Printer is that they should come out in two sizes— viz., demy quarto and in royal octavo, the size of the " Transactions of the New Zealand Institute." Could all these papers be brought out in one of those forms? —I think so. 6. They would not appear twice—in that form and in the foolscap form? —In our Department each item of the Department's activity is referred to in the General Report, and this would be sufficient for reference purposes, aa, for instance, in " Tidal Surveys," which is referred to as Appendix V. I think such references would be sufficient publication in the official report, which could be published in any form desired by the Department 7. When you prepare a report upon the tides, or anything of that sort, who is responsible for passing that for the Printer? —The Surveyor-General. 8. Take the report of Mr. Philips Turner, for instance: who is responsible for that?—So far as I am aware, they are passed by the Under-Secretary. 9. So far as reports refer to technical mathematical work they are passed by the SurveyorGeneral, but not in, say, forestry work? —That is so. 10. Hon. Mr. Herdman.] What form, do you suggest the publication should take instead of the foolscap form ?—I understand there are only two forms suggested by the Government Printer. I should think one or other of these forms would be suitable, and see no difficulty in printing them in demy quarto size, which, I understand, is lljin. by BJin. In the foolscap size there is sometimes a tendency for the illustrations to be unnecessarily large. With regard to smaller sized publications, the illustrations could be produced without loss of clearness. 11. Mr. Russell.] I suppose that what you think would be most desirable would be, probably, that all the technical papers in connection with the Lands and Survey Department should be consolidated into the one book each year : would that be 3'our idea?— That would appear to meet the case, sir. 12. You would not suggest that three or four reports, like those of Dr. Cockayne and others, if appearing in one number should be made separate publications of —it would mean increased expense in the binding, in the making-up, and in printing the different portions; whereas if the Government printed the works in each Department right down until all were completed, there would be only one volume and the work would be expedited?— Yes, but reprints in paper covers could be produced at small cost, as is done by the Carnegie Institution and elsewhere. 13. Supposing, Mr. Adams, we had royal octavo as the standard size, would one page give you sufficient room for the publication of maps and pictures? —I think so, but if necessary we could put a folder in. These large maps, for instance, are put in up to any size. Personally, T think demy quarto might be large enough in most cases. 14. Your idea is that what should be bound up with the Appendices to the Journals of the House should only be the report, and that all the technical publications —the subsidiary publications—should be independent and issued in this standard form? —Yes, I think so; whilst, if the Committee could >see its way to do so, it would be a very desirable, thing to have a summary index published in the " Transactions of the New Zealand Institute " indicating the scientific work published by the Government. 15. The Chairman.] That is already provided for?—l am pleased to hear it, as it seems to me to be an index to which inquirers could be referred to so as to find any scientific matter whatever published in the Dominion.

Jpproximdte Cost of Patter. —Preparation, not given; printing (1,100 copies), -84.

Authority : John Maokay, Government Printer, Wellington.—l9l2.

Price fid.]

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