REPORTING DEBATES AND PRINTING COMMITTEE (REPORT OF THE) ON THE MANUSCRIPT REPORT AND PROOFS OF THE SPEECH OF THE HONOURABLE MEMBER FOR WAITOTARA, TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AND APPENDIX.

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1890 Session I, I-08

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1890. NEW ZEALAND.

REPORTING DEBATES AND PRINTING COMMITTEE (REPORT OF THE) ON THE MANUSCRIPT REPORT AND PROOFS OF THE SPEECH OF THE HONOURABLE MEMBER FOR WAITOTARA, TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AND APPENDIX.

Report brought up 21st August, 1890, and ordered to be printed.

ORDERS OF REFERENCE. Extracts from the Journals of the House of Representatives. Friday, the 20thDay of June, 1890. Ordered, " That a Committee,' consisting of ten members, be appointed to assist Mr. Speaker in all matters which relate to the reporting of debates, and to the printing executed by order of this House, and for the purpose of selecting and arranging for printing returns and papers presented in pursuance of motions made by members of this House ; three to be a quorum. The Committee to consist of Mr. Speaker, Mr. Foldwiok, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. W. P. Reeves, Mr. Saunders, Major Steward, Mr. Whyte, and the mover." —(Hon. Mr. Hislop.) Wednesday, the 18th Day op August, 1890. Ordered, " That the manuscript report and proof of the speech of the honourable member for Waitotara, made on the 2nd July, 1890, containing accusations against the Government, be referred to the Reporting Debates Committee for comparison with the Hansard report."—(Hon. Mr. Hislop.)

EEPOET. The Reporting Debates and Printing Committee has the honour to report that, under the order of reference of the 13th day of August, 1890, relating to the speech delivered by the honourable member for Waitotara on the 2nd July, 1890, the Committee has made the examination directed, and finds that the greater part of the alterations made by Mr. Hutchison were merely literary corrections ; and that, as regards the remainder, the charges made against the Government were not materially altered thereby. William J. Steward, 21st August, 1890. Chairman.

MINUTES OE PROCEEDINGS,

Thursday, 14th August, 1890. The Committee met at 11 a.m. Present: Major Steward (Chairman), Mr. Feldwick, Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, and Mr. Saunders. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. The Clerk then read the order of reference of the 13th August. The Chairman stated that the motion to refer the manuscript report and proofs of Mr. Hutchison's speech to this Committee was carried late on Tuesday night, and he had lost no time in calling a meeting of the Committee. A similar case had arisen in 1877, when the proofs of Mr. Ormond's speech were referred to the Reporting Debates Committee of that session. The Chairman read the report from Hansard and Appendix to the Journals. I—l. 8.

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After a long discussion that the order of reference did not fully set forth what the Committee was empowered to do, — Mr. Reeves moved, That the order of reference is insufficient, inasmuch as there is no direction to the Committee to report the result of their investigation. Hon. Mr. Hislop moved, That the question be amended by the omission of all the words after the word "That," and the insertion of the following words in lieu thereof: " the Committee now proceed to compare the manuscript, proofs, and Hansard reports, and to call necessary witnesses, and that any further powers be thereafter asked for from the House." And the question being put, That the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 3.—Mr. Reeves, Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss. Noes, 4.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Saunders. So it passed in the negative. And the question being put, That the words proposed by the Hon. Mr. Hislop to be inserted, in lieu of the words struck out, be so inserted, — Mr. O'Conor moved, That the words proposed to be inserted be amended by the omission of all the words after " witnesses," and the insertion-of the following words in lieu thereof : " the Chairman be requested to apply to the House for further instructions." And the question being put, That .the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 2.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry. Noes, 5. —Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. So it passed in the negative. And the question being proposed, That the words proposed by Mr. O'Conor to be inserted be so inserted, — Mr. Reeves moved, That the words proposed to be inserted be amended by the-addition of the following words : "directing the Committee to report the evidence, documentary or other, which may be taken or produced before it." And the question being put, That the words proposed to be added be so added, it was resolved in the affirmative. And the question being put, That the words proposed to be inserted as amended be so inserted, the Committee divided, and. the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 5. —Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 2.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry. So it was resolved in the affirmative. Resolved, That the Committee now proceed to compare the manuscript, proofs, and Hansard reports, and to call necessary witnesses, and that the Chairman be requested to apply to the House for further instructions directing the Committee to report the evidence, documentary or other, which may be taken or produced before it. Mr. Barron, Chief Reporter, Hansard staff, was now called in. In answer to the Chairman, he stated he had received a letter from the Clerk of the Reporting Debates Committee asking him to attend and bring with him the transcript proofs and revises of Mr. Hutchison's speech of the 2nd July, 1890. He now produced and handed to the Chairman the transcript proofs and revises of Mr. Hutchison's speech of the 2nd July, 1890. He believed the proof to be the first proof, but the printer would be better able to say. The transcript bore some alterations. The Committee then proceeded to examine the proofs, but were soon interrupted by the 1 o'clock adjournment. On the motion of Mr. Reeves, it Was resolved, That the transcript proofs and revises be handed to Mr. Barron for safe custody. On the motion of Mr. O'Conor, it was resolved, That the Chairman be instructed to engage a clerk to write a copy of the transcript report of Mr. Hutchison's speech, showing erasures, alterations, and additions made thereto in red ink. On the motion of Mr. O'Conor, it was resolved, That the Committee stand adjourned till tomorrow (Friday), the 15th instant, at 11 a.m.

Fkiday, 15th August, 1890. The Committee met pursuant to notice. Present: Major Steward (Chairman), Mr. Feldwick, Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. The minutes of the previous meeting were read, but, owing to an omission, the confirming was postponed to the next meeting. Mr. Barron, Chief Reporter, Hansard staff, was in attendance, and produced the transcript proofs and revises of Mr. Hutchison's speech of the 2nd July, 1890. The Committee then proceeded with the examination of the proofs and revises, and completed the same. The Clerk then handed the Chairman that portion of the speech which had been copied from the transcript, showing alterations and additions in red ink, stating that, as the speech was a long one, he had found it impossible to finish it, but the balance would be ready by the next meeting. The Committee then examined the transcript copy so far as made. On the motion of Mr. Feldwick, it was resolved that the bringing up of the report of resolution, agreed to on the 14th instant, to the House be deferred.

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The Committee then adjourned to 11 o'clock a.m. on Tuesday, the 19th instant. Subsequently the Chairman instructed the Clerk to call the Committee together at 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday, the 19th instant.

Tuesday, 19th August, 1890. The Committee met pursuant to notice. iVesent; Major Steward (Chairman), Mr. Feldwick, Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. The minutes of the two previous meetings were read and confirmed. Mr Barron, Chief Reporter, Hansard staff, was in attendance, and produced the transcript proofs and revises of Mr. Hutchison's speech of the 2nd July, 1890, which he handed to the The Clerk then handed the Chairman the balance of the copy of the transcript of Mr. Hutchison's speech, showing erasures, additions, and alterations in red ink, and the Committee proceeded to examine the same, and the examination of the same was completed. The Chairman said that the position of the Committee stood thus: that they must either report to the House the resolution passed by the Committee on the 14th instant, or by resolution defer that report, or move to rescind the same, in order to enable the presentation of any further report which the Committee might agree to. Mr. Hutchison, who had been present during the examination by the Committee ol the transcript proofs and revises, asked that he might be allowed to say a few words m explanation. The Committee having assented, — Mr Hutchison said he had nothing to add to what he had stated in the House, except to explain how he came to correct the transcript. On the day after the delivery of the speech he went to the Government Printing Office for the purpose of ascertaining when he could get the proof for correcting, as he intended to be absent from Wellington on the Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Mr. Didsburv stated that it would probably be too late to correct it on Monday night, as the matter might be wanted for Tuesday's Hansard, and that he did not think the proofs could be ready for Friday. Mr. Didsbury found, on inquiry, that the printers had not begun to set up the copy, and it was arranged that he (Mr. Hutchison) might go over the transcript The same day he received the transcript, which he considered somewhat rough and full ot abbreviations, and, after going over it, and making a number of corrections, he decided not to leave but remain and see the proofs. This he intimated to Mr. Didsbury when returning the transcript. As to the alterations in the transcript and proof-sheets, they were only such as were required to make the Hansard report a correct report of his speech. Mr. Hutchison then withdrew. , . . , After considerable discussion as to the best mode of procedure, m which all the members ot the Committee took part, — ■ Mr. Feldwick gave notice that he would move, at the next meeting of the Committee, mat the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant be rescinded. _ Mr Moss moved, That the Committee have carefully compared the original manuscript and proofs of the speech delivered by Mr. Hutchison, the member for Waitotara, on the 2nd July, with the report as published in Hansard of that date, and find (1) that the corrections made were not m any respect such as to alter the sense or call for notice; (2) that the report, as published in Hansard, is a correct report of the speech delivered by the honourable member m the House Mr O'Conor moved, That the question be amended by the omission of all the words after the word " That " with a view to the insertion of the following words in lieu thereof: "this Committee adjourn till Thursday for the purpose of considering a report, and that, in the meantime, the transcript and revises remain in the hands of the Clerk for the purpose of examination by members ot the Committee." \ ... , Hon. Mr. Hislop then moved, That the Committee adjourn the consideration of bringing up a leP °And the question being put, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow: — Ayes, 3.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor. N OCS} 4._ Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. So it passed in the negative. Mr. Moss here asked leave to withdraw his motion. Mr. O'Conor objected. So the question was put. And the question being put, That the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, it passed in the negative. , . ~ , And the question being put, That the words proposed by Mr. 0 Conor to be inserted, in lieu ot the words struck out, be so inserted, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow: — Ayes, 3.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor. Noes, 4._ Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. So it passed in the negative. ™ m,, uiv^i.;*!, Mr. Saunders then moved to add the following words after the word " That, "whilst both the reporters' manuscript and the printers' proofs have been very carefully corrected, and some manliest reporters' and printers' errors rectified, all alterations have been in the direction of making the report a more clear and faithful representation of what was said in the House. In one or two cases the sense and intention of the speaker had been reversed, in the first draft reports, by .hat very common mistake of simply omitting or adding a negative, but even these occurred m immaterial

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parts of the speech, and no alteration whatever was made to either mitigate or exaggerate the charges brought against the Government by the member for Waitotara." And the question being put, That the words proposed to be added stand part of the question, — Mr. Feldwick moved, That the words proposed to be inserted be amended by the omission of the following words after " and no: " " alteration whatever was made to either mitigate or exaggerate," with a view of inserting the following words in lieu thereof: " alterations seriously affect." And the question being put, That the words proposed by Mr. Feldwick to be inserted be so inserted, in lieu of the words proposed to be struck out, it was resolved in the affirmative. And the question being put, That the words proposed to be inserted as amended be so inserted, the Committee divided, and. the names were taken down as follow: — Ayes, 3.—Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 3.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Reeves. The votes being equal, the Chairman gave his casting vote with the Noes. So it passed in the negative. Mr. Reeves moved to add the following words after the word " That" in the original motion : " the Committee has made the examination directed, and finds that the greater part of the alterations made by Mr. Hutchison were merely literary corrections, and that, as regards the remainder, the charges made against the Government were not materially altered thereby." And the question being put, That the words proposed by Mr. Reeves to be added be so added, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 4.—Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 2. —Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry. So it passed in the affirmative. And the original question, as amended, being put, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 4. —Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 2. —Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry. So it was resolved in the affirmative. Resolved, That the Committee has made the examination directed, and finds that the greater part of the alterations made by Mr. Hutchison were merely literary corrections, and that, as regards the remainder, the charges made against the Government were not materially altered thereby. A further amendment was offered by Mr. Lawry, as follows : To insert after the word " That " " the Committee, only having heard the Chairman read the manuscript and proofs of the speech made by the member for Waitotara, are not in a position to state whether the accusations made against the Government are mitigated or exaggerated, as they have had no opportunity to examine the manuscript and proofs beyond the casual one indicated above. This amendment could not be put, the Committee having by the previous vote decided the issue. Moved by Hon. Mr. Hislop, That the Committee do now adjourn till to-morrow, Wednesday, the 20th instant, at 10.30 a.m., and that the Clerk have the custody of the transcript proofs and revises of Mr. Hutchison's speech, and that members of the Committee have access to the same.

Wednesday, 20th August, 1890. The Committee met pursuant to notice. Present: Major Steward (Chairman), Mr. Feldwick, Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders, Mr. Whyte. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. Mr. Feldwick, in accordance with his notice of motion, now moved for leave to amend the same by retaining the words down to and including the word " witnesses " in the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant, and to strike out all the words after " witnesses." And the question being put, That leave be so given to Mr. Feldwick to amend the motion, it was resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Feldwick then moved to amend the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant by the omission of all the words after the word " witnesses." And the question being put, That the words proposed to be omitted be so omitted, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 3.—Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 5. —Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Whyte. So it passed in the negative. Mr. Feldwick moved, That the Chairman report to-day in accordance with the terms of the resolution of yesterday and that of the 14th August. A debate on the question of bringing up a report, in which all the members of the Committee took part, lasted for a considerable time, when Mr. Whyte moved the adjournment of the debate. And the question being put, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow :— Ayes, 4. —Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Whyte. Noes, 4.—Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. The voting being equal, the Chairman gave his casting vote with the Ayes. So it was resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Whyte gave notice that he would move at the next meeting of the Committee, That all

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the words after the word " witnesses " in the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant be rescinded. Resolved, That the Chairman in the meantime bring up no report. On motion of Mr, Whyte, the Committee adjourned till 11 a.m. to-morrow, the 21st instant.

Thuesday, 2 Ist August, 1890. The Committee met pursuant to notice. Present: Major Steward (Chairman), Mr. Feldwick, Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. Moss, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders, Mr. Whyte. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. Mr. Feldwick asked leave to withdraw his motion, given on the 19th instant. And' the question being put, That leave be given to Mr. Feldwick to withdraw the same, it was resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Whyte, in accordance with his notice of motion of the 19th instant, now moved, That all the words after the word " witnesses" in the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant be rescinded. And the question being put, That all the words after the word " witnesses " in the resolution of the Committee of the 14th instant be omitted, it was resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Feldwick moved, That the Chairman bring up a report to-day in terms of the resolution passed on the 19th instant. Mr. O'Conor moved to amend Mr. Feldwick's motion by the addition of the following words : " together with the minutes and documentary evidence." Hon. Mr. Hislop moved, To strike out all the words after the word " That," in Mr. Feldwick's motion, with a view of inserting the following words: " the Committee report the evidence and minutes." Mr. O'Conor asked leave to withdraw his amendment. And the question being put, That leave be given to Mr. O'Conor to withdraw his amendment, it passed in the affirmative. And the question being put, That the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, the Committee divided, and the names were taken down as follow: —. Ayes, 4. —Mr. Feldwick, Mr. Moss, Mr. Reeves, Mr. Saunders. Noes, 4.—Hon. Mr. Hislop, Mr. Lawry, Mr. O'Conor, Mr. Whyte. The Chairman said that he was placed in an exceedingly difficult and responsible position. Throughout this inquiry he had endeavoured to act with entire fairness, and without bias in favour of his own opinions. Under present circumstances it became his duty to decide the issue, and inasmuch as to negative the present resolution would throw the Committee into chaos, and, as in his view, the resolution of the 19th instant should be reported to the House, he would give his casting vote with the Ayes. So it was resolved in the affirmative. And the original question being put, it was resolved in the affirmative. Resolved, That the Chairman bring up a report to-day in terms of the resolution passed on the 19th instant. Mr. O'Conor moved a vote of thanks to the Chairman for the very impartial manner in which he had conducted the proceedings of the Committee. The Committee then adjourned.

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APPENDIX.

[Corrections made in part of MSS. speech shown in erased type and italics.] And now, Sir, I will refer again to the Financial Statement, to come-down to the and come back to consider the present position of the colony. I take the same exception to this Financial Statement that I took to the Speech of His Excellency the Governor: I object to it for what it does not contain. Our attention is sought to be engrossed by the movements of the Consolidated Fund. The Treasurer feas-tfee displays the revenue and expenditure with engaging vivacity; lie has the moneys as it were on the table before him, and he shifts thea* it to and fro ; he makes them it fall in a glittering cascade to attract our attontiea admiration ; aad he collects a little pile and calls it a surplus, and he covers over the deficiency with his the Financial Statement! But while he is engaging seeking thus to engross the attention of honourable members fey with the beauty of the Consolidated Rweaae Fund, in the next room throughout the-l&et-ttoefe-yetTO at feeea Ms confederates have been amusing themselves with a larger fund as regards the opportunities for speculation —the Public Works Fund, sad ee-ea to which our Consolidated Fund is in some respects a comparative trifle. I will ask honourable members to bear with me while I touch on the occurrences of the last three years with reference to the Public Works Fund — that fund which is made up of borrowed money. In 1888, tke-seeead just before the second session of this Parliament, it will be remembered that there was a crisis in respect of the two-million loan in London. The loan Bilhel which was to have authorised the previous year had been bungled—aad tho leaa it could not be raised. It tvas a period of great anxiety. It was a crisis in the history of the colony in more senses than one. T-faero wao dariag Soon after the month of March the-geried-whea in that year 1880, a certain monetary institution had to present its half-yearly report and balance-sheet. I refer to the Bank of New Zealand. I mean to refer often to that bank, but never except in so far as the bank is concerned with the finance of the colony ; outside of that I have no concern with it at all, but inside of that I have, and every member of this House has, a deep concern in its transactions. Oa-the 3lot March It was necessary then for tkej» the bank directors to present their report and balance-sheet. Do not honourable members remember the meeting ei-4hat-day in Auckland when the chairman of directors presented his report ? There were ugly reports current as to the stability of the bank. The chairman of directors, Sir, was then Sir Frederick Whitaker, and he was also then and as he is still AttorneyGeneral in the present Administration. lam not going to indulge in any phantasies, feat-we / shall deal with facts. We are here to speak the truth —impugn it whoso list listeth; and I say that that honourable gentlemen was at that date was deeply indebted to the Bank of New Zealand. I will not say that the amount of his aeeeaat overdraft was £40,000 or any other sum, because aa some honourable Minister may get up and say it

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[Correotions'made in proof and revise of part of speech shown in erased type and italics.] And now, Sir, I will refer again to the Financial Statement, and come back to consider the present position of the colony. I take the same exception to this Financial Statement that I took to the Speech of His Excellency the Governor: I object to it for what it does not contain. Our attention is sought to be engrossed by the movements of the Consolidated Fund. The Treasurer displays the revenue and expenditure with engaging vivacity; he has the money, as it were, on the table before him,, and he shifts it to and fro ; he makes it fall in a glittering cascades to attract our admiration ; he collects a little pile and calls it a surplus, and he covers over the deficiency with the Financial Statement! But, while he is seeking thus to engross the attention of honourable members with the beauty of the Consolidated Fund, in the next room his confederates have been amusing themselves with a larger fund—the Public Works Fund —to which our Consolidated Fund is ia-wmio- respeete a comparative trifle, as regards at least the opportunities for speculation. I will ask honourable members to bear with me while I touch on the occurrences of the last three years with reference to the Public Works Fund—that fund which is made up of borrowed money. In 1888, just before the second session of this Parliament, it will be remembered that there was a erieie hitch in respect of the proposed two-million loan ia-Leadea ? The loan, which was to have been authorised the previous year, had been bungled—it could not be raised. It was a period of great anxiety. It was a crisis in the history of the colony in more ceases ways than one. Soea-aitef-tfte-aieath-ei-Marfth In the usual course, early in that year a certain monetary institution had to present its half-yearly report and balance-sheet. I refer to the Bank of New Zealand. I mean to refer often to that bank, but never except in so far as the bank is consented nected with the finances of this colony ; outside of that I have no concern with it at all, but inside of that I have, and every member of this House has, a deep concern in its transactions. It was necessary, then, for the bank directors to present their report and balancesheet. Do not honourable members remember the meeting in Auckland when the chairman of directors presented his report ? There were ugly roporta rumours current as to the stability of the bank. The chairman of directors, Sh=j then was the Hon. Sir F. Whitaker, and he was also then, and as he is still, Attorney-General in the present Administration. I am not going to indulge in any phantasies. I will deal with facts. We are here to speak the truth—impugn it whoso listeth; and I say that that honourable gentleman was at that date deeply indebted to the Bank of New Zealand. I will not say that the amount of his overdraft was £40,000 or any other sum, because some Minister may get up and say it was not so, because the amount was a little larger or a little smaller, as the case »ay might be; but I will say it was a very, very heavy

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Was not so because the amount was a little larger or a little smaller as the case may be, but I ivill say it was a very, very heavy amount, and an amount which has never been discharged to this day, and, if the Government will appoint a Committee on the subject, for which I hope to give some further reasons later on, to inquire into the transactions of the Government with the Bank of New Zealand during, the past three years, I take upon myself the onus of proving that what I now say is absolutely correct. Here, then, we have at this double crisis ia-the-meaey market — a crisis with the colony and a crisis with the bank — the chairman of directors ei—the-Baak of Now Zealaad the Attorney-General of the present Ministry, as a geßtleH*aa-&f-g«sat-espei : ieaee power in politics, aad-whe one had been the Premier of the colony before, and from his great ability and long experience was no doubt entitled to a great deal of weight in the counsels of the Ministry. What was done ? The As I have said, the loan could not be raised : no assistance could be looked for from that source; but a perfectly abnormal state of finance wao carried—on that year had been created for the emergency by authority being taken for the Colonial Treasurer to float £840,000 of deficiency bills. It This was quite an abnormal state of things, the normal state amount being £700,000 ; and, although the ameaat maximum of £840,000 was reduced before the balance-sheet of the colony was made up on the 31st of March, for presentation to the House in the session of 1888, even at that date there were threequarters of a million of deficiency bills estaat-vrith the-aamo-of-the-Tfeasayer-ef—fehe-eeleay—attaehed-te the» in circulation. Aad-te-iadieate-the-reasea The reason why these bills were floated they woro Seated was to buy minted gold. To pat be accumulated into the coffers GeveMaaeat of the colony ? No; to fill the coffers of the Bank of' New Zealand. I ask the Government to meet this ia-Geaaaittee if they can before a Committee, or by any other tribunal they choose to erect. The loan was floated in June, aad4t-wae 1888. As I took occasion to say last session, it was floated at a lees sacrifice of £100,000, aad by reason of the more favourable circumstances in the earlier part of the year, when, if there had been no bungle, it might have been floated. It was floated also, I regret to say, under circumstances of such gross misrepresentation of fact as would, by the rules of any Court of law, —had it been the prospectus of a private company,— have entitled the subscribers to have had their liabilities allotments of scrip set aside. The loan was floated, as I have said, at a direct indirect loss of £100,000, bat-ef at a direct expense, besides, of over £110,000 w-ith-pi-iaeipai,----dieeeaaty-aad-iatesest in discounts and expenses. Aad4a-the-fh , ut year of-its-issae-that-leaa-eeot uo 10 pe¥-eeat ; That loan cost the colony, not reckoning the indirect loss, 10 per cent, the first year. The crisis, so far as the colony was concerned, ivas past, but the crisis in the affairs of the bank continued. The gross proceeds of £1,955,000 went into the Bank of New Zealand, aad now-a-earieas-tbiag iallews though for a time somewhat relieved by the assistance of our loan. And a curious thing occurred. I have referred to the meeting in March, 1888, and to the disclosures which the directors must have known were inevitable aad-whieh—the dirootofs-ef-the-baak-Bftaot bo takea-te-have-kaewa-te fee4aevitafele r bat-ler-eeßie-par'p9se-were-p»stpeaed-as ftff-as-pessifele; but were not revealed. It was considered desirable to strengthen the bank in various ways, one of which was by representing the con-

amount, and an amount which has never to this day been discharged, and, if the Government will appoint a Committee—for which I hope to give some further reasons later on—to inquire into the transactions of the Government with the Bank of New Zealand during the past three years, I take upon myself the onus of proving that what I now say is absolutely correct. Here, then, we have at this double crisis—a crisis with the colony and a crisis with the bank —the chairmain of directors the Attorney-General of the present Ministry, a power in politics, one who had been the Premier of the colony before, and one loho, from his great ability and long experience, was exercised no doubt ontitlod to a great deal of weight in the counsels of the Ministry. What was done ? As I have said, the loan could not be raised : no assistance could be looked for from that source ; but a perfectly abnormal state of finance had-beea 'was created for the emergency, by Authority beiag4akon fos was obtained by the Colonial Treasurer to float upwards of £840,000 of deficiency bills. This was quite an abnormal state of things, the normal amountbeing£7oo,ooo; and, although the maximum of £840,000 was reduced before the balance-sheet of the colony was made up on the 31st March, for presentation to the House in the session of 1888, even at that date there were three-quarters of a million of deficiency bills in circulation. The reason why these bills were floated was to buy minted gold. To be accumulated in the coffers of the colony ? No ; to fill the coffers of the Bank of New Zealand. I ask the Government to meet this charge, if they can, before a Committee, or by before any other tribunal they choose to erect. The loan was floated in June, 1888. As I took occasion to say last session, it was floated at a sacrifice of £100,000, by reason of the more favourable circumstances having been lost in the earlier part of the year, when, if there had been no bungle, it might have been more successfully floated. hav4ag-beon loot It was floated also, I regret to say, under circumstances of such gross misrepresentation of facts as would, by the rules of any Court of law, —had it boon the prespoctuo the case been that of a private company,—have entitled the subscribers to have had their allotments of scrip set aside. The loan was floated, as I have said, at an indirect loss of £100,000, and at a direct expense, besides, of over £110,000 in discounts and expenses. That loan must have cost the colony —aet-seekeaiag-the iadheet4ees —10 per cent, the first year. The gross proceeds, amounting to £1,955,000, went into the Bank of New Zealand. The crisis, so far as the colony was concerned, was past over. But the crisis in the affairs of the bank continued, though for a time somewhat relieved by the assistance of our loan. Aad Then a curious thing occurred. I have referred to the meeting in March, 1888, and to the disclosures which the directors must have known were inevitable, bat It was considered desisafele neces - sary to strengthen the position of the bank in various ways, one of which was by representing the contrary of what w-as must be taken to have been known by some to be coming. I charge the Government with having interfered, through the Agent-General, in London, ia by endeavouring to bolster up the credit of the bank and deceive the public. If the Government will not give the Committee I suggest, let-theav-ha¥e I ask them to let any man they choose to name, not connected with themselves, —-the honourable member for Lincoln or the honourable member for Waipa,—to go

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trary of what was known by some to be coming. Aad I charge the Government with having interfered, with through the Agent-General, in London, in endeavouring to bolster up the credit of the bank and eadewear-te deceive the public. If the Government will not give the Committee I suggest, let them have any man they choose to name, not connected with themselves, —the honourable member for Lincoln aad or the honourable member for Waipa,—to go over the file of telegrams to the Agent-General in the latter part of 1888 and the beginning of 1889, and say whether or not the Government of the colony did not employ the Agent-General to assure the public of London that the position of the Bank of New Zealand was sound, aad That their the position of the bank then was sound is what we all now know not to be true : the disclosures since made show that without any doubt. Those who make representations must be responsible for the facts as alleged, or are equally liable for representing what they do not know to be true. Noio, let us see how the Ministry was aiding the Bank with money. There was in 1889, according to the Public Works Account in that year, one and a half millions, the proceeds of this two-million loan, and thore-is To anticipate somewhat, I have here a little Table (te-aatiei»ate-a4ittle) which I think would be rather interesting to the public were it added to those accompanying the Financial Statement, or those ivhich may yet be issued with the Public Works Statement. 4-kav-e it4i« : e7 It is a table of four lines only, and it indicates the percentage of money in the Public Works Fund which we?e tvas uninvested, ef-tfee balaaee-as-the or the "free money" as the Colonial Treasurer, in his Financial Statement, would call it;

Public Works Fund.

In 1887 I find that there was only a balance per-eeatage-ei 11 per cent, uninvested. The Government had invested the whole of the available funds, less 11 per cent.— a reasonable sum to hold at call. In 1888, 53 per cent.; aad in 1889, 31 per cent. ; and in 1890, 48 per cent, was uninvested. The last three amounts r eepeetivefy of money uninvested were large amounts: the first ameaat was over £412,000, ia-reaad-aaai-bere the next was over £525,000, and the aest last was over £587,000 —moneys for which the colony was paying interest, but which the Government bad left uninvested, yielding no profit or return from the Bank of New Zealand. Will the Treasurer or his deputy see that thieese data are annexed to the Financial Statement or the Public Works Statement, for the information of the colony? The figures are all taken from documents issued by themselves the Colonial Treasurer. Now we come, to the aaaaeiai-epejatieae conversion scheme of last year. If-a9ay--aet4ia¥e4)eea It did not promise much of a gain in the way of ready money to the bank, but it was what banks like : the circulation of coin. T-reies-te-the-eeavereiea ei-the-leaa-dealt with in-the^iaaaeial-§tateßaeßt. I would remind honourable members that the amount which had to be raised last year was only £388,000, and it was quite clear that tempo-

over the file of telegrams to the Agent-General in the latter part of 1888 and the beginning of 1889, and say whether or not the Government of the colony did not employ the Agent-General to assure the public of London that the position of the Bank of New Zealand was sound. That the position of the bank then was sound is what we all now know ivas not te-fee true : the disclosures since made show that without any doubt. Those who make representations aiast-fee are responsible for the facts as they alleged, or are equally liable for representing what they do not know to be true. Now, let us see how the Ministry was were aiding the bank with money. There was in 1889, according to the Public Works Account ia of that year, in round numbers, one and a half millions, the proceeds of this two-million loan lodged in the bank. To anticipate somewhat, I have here a little Table, which I think would be rather interesting to the public were it added to those accompanying the Financial Statement, or those which may yet be issued with the Public Works Statement. It is a table of four lines only. It indicates the percentage of money in the Public Works Fund which was uninvested, or the " free money," as the Colonial Treasurer, in his Financial Statement, would call it :

Public Works Fund.

In 1887, f-fiad it will thus be seen that there was only li-pes-eeat; a small percentage uninvested. The Government of that day had invested the whole of the available funds, less 11 per cent. — a reasonable sum to hold at call. Ia But in 1888, 53 per cent.; in 1889, 31 per cent.; and in 1890, 48 per cent, was remained uninvested. The last three amounts ef-«eaey uninvested will be observed to have been wea=e large amounts: the first was over £412,000, the next was over £525,000, and the last was over £587,000— moneys for which the colony was paying interest but which the Government left uninvested, yieldiag obtaining no profit or return from the Bank of New Zealand. Will the Treasurer or his deputy see that these data are annexed to the Financial Statement or the Public Works Statement, for the information of the colony? The figures are all taken from documents issued by the Colonial Treasurer. Now we come to the conversion scheme of last year. It did not promise much of a gain in the way of ready money to the bank, but it was meant what banks like : the circulation of coin. I would remind honourable gentlemen that the amount which had to be raised last year was only £388,000, and it was is quite clear that temporary provision might have been made for that, if it was were desirable to postpone a larger conversion of outstanding loans. The Government, however, determined to raise a loan which w T ould include £2,207,300, which was the balance of the '78 loan, called "the ten-forties" from the fact that they could be redeemed at any time after ten years from the Ist September, 1888, up to the Ist September, 1918. It was arranged that tenders we?e4a should be invited to be sent in by the 25th October last year. Now, I wish

On 31st March. Total Fund. Not invested. Percentages not invested. 1887 1888 1889 1890 £ 1,012,439 773,975 1,368,926 1,224,736 £ 111,344 412,749 525,367 587,832 11 per cent. 53 31 48

On 31st March. Total Fund. Not invested. Percentages not invested. 1887 1888 1889 1890 £ 1,012,439 773,975 1,368,926 1,224,736 £ 111,344 412,749 525,367 587,832 : I r ! I 11 per cent. 53 31 48

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rary provisiou might have been made for that if it was desirable to postpone the a, larger conversion of outstanding loans. The Government, however, determined to raise a loan which would include «£ £2,207,300, wldch was the balance of the '78 loan called "the ten-forties" from the fact that they could be redeemed at any time after ten years from the Ist September, 1888, up to the Ist of September, 1918. Hewovor--thifi-wafi4k>ated r ef rather-thifi-wne amtaged-te—be floated r -aad It was arranged that tenders were to be seat invited to be sent in by the 25th October of last year. Now, I wish to revert for a few minutes to something that occurred last session. The honourable member for Dunedin South has this afternoon referred somewhat to the-reeeaaaeadatiea what the M4aiste* Postmaster-General the other day claimed to be the sanction or reeammeadatiea agreement of the Public Accounts Committee of last session to the advance of the sum of some £5,000 to meet the debentures of the New Plymouth Harbour Board which were to come due on the Ist of November last, —about a week after the date when the tenders for the conversion of the loan were to be accepted. It will be necessary to refer somewhat to the New Plymouth Harbour Board. It will be remembered that in the session of 1888 the Premier Colonial Treasurer, from his seat in this House, indicated that it was " a serious matter," and that it was necessary and proper that this House should consider and determine the question whether these should be redeemed relieved in some way, er-ether in the ivay of advancing against its future income, because otherwise the Board we?e would be compelled to stop payment, and that as it 'was the Board was practically insolvent. He introduced a Bill in that year called "The Harbours Bill"—why not " The New Plymouth Harbour Bill" I do not know. It was intended to assist the New Plymouth Harbour Board by capitalising the per-petual-leaseholds rents in the Provincial District of Taranaki, so as to enable the Board to meet its interest for three or four years : it could not possibly pay-fer-4oager cover a longer term. The House unequivocally condemned the whole proposal and said it would have none of it—that it was a dangerous thing to interfere in such matters. Yet, during the recess which followed, the Colonial Treasurer advanced the New Plymouth Harbour Board sufficient to enable them to redeem meet their half-yearly interest in Nwembes May, 1889. In the first week of the session of ISB9 that year I took occasion to ask the Colonial Treasurer what assistance had been given to the Board and the means by which the money had been provided. The Treasurer stated that they had advanced £C9O against rates on Native land and £2,200 against the 25 per cent, of the land revenue. Feeling somewhat doubtful as to the security of the colony in reference to that advance, I pressed the Colonial Treasurer, after he gave an answer to the question on the Order Paper, as to whether he was satisfied aad aooured of the position of the colony in making that advance. The assaraaee answer he gave me was this that he was assured the lionoarafele-geatlemae-tfaat there was no doubt whatever as to the security of the Government. He was still further pressed by myoolf as to whether the Government had taken the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown on the subject, and tke-Tmisarer he answered that they the Government had done so before making the advance. Now, one of two things has occurred : either the Treasurer spoke without being correct, or the Law

2—l. 8.

to revert refer for a few minutes to something that occurred last session. The honourable member for Dunedin South has this afternoon referred to what the Postmaster-General the other day claimed to be the sanction or agreement of the Public Accounts Committee of last session to the advance of the sum of seme nearly £5,000 to meet the debentures of the New Plymouth Harbour Board which were to come due on the Ist November last — about a week after the date when the tenders for the conversion of the loan were to be accepted. It will be necessary to refer somewhat to the New Plymouth Harbour Board. It will be remembered that in the session of 1888 the Colonial Treasurer, from his seat in this House, iadieated stated that "4t-was-a-seriaas mattes- the future of the Board with reference to its interest payments in Loudon raised a " serious question," and that- it wan -aeeessasy—aad proper that this House should " consider and determine" the-tpestiea whether tkese-ehoald the necessities of the Board should not be relieved ia—seme-way r 4» the way of by advancing against its fatare income, because otherwise the Board would be compelled to stop payment, praetically-iasalveatr and might involve the colony. He introduced a Bill in that year called " The Harbours Bill— but why not "The New Plymouth Harbour Bill" I do not know. It was iateaded proposed to assist the New Plymouth Harbour Board by capitalising the perpetualleasehold rents and deferred-payment land payments in the Provincial District of Taranaki, to which the Board was entitled, so as to enable the Beard it to meet its interest for three or four years : it the proceeds could not possibly cover a ionger term. The House; unequivocally condemned the proposal and said it would have none of it —that it was dangerous to interfere in such a matter. Yet, during the recess which followed, the Colonial Treasurer advanced the—New Ply-meatb-Hasbeai s to the Board sufficient money to enable them it to meet thoir the half-yearly interest due in May, 1889. In the first week of the session of that year I took occasion to ask the Colonial Treasurer what assistance had been given to the Board and the means by which that money had been provided. The Treasurer stated that they he had advanced £690 against rates on Native lands and £2,200 against the 25 per cent, of the land revenue. Feeling somewhat doubtful as to the security of the colony in sefereaee relation to that advance, I pressed the Colonial Treasurer, after he gave aa the answer to the question on the Order Paper, as to whether he was satisfied of the position of the colony in making that advance. The assaraaee answer he gave me was that he was assured there was no doubt whatever as to the security of the Government, Ho was On being still further pressed as to whether the Government had taken the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown on the subject, aad he aaewered replied that the Government had done so before making the advance. Now, one of two things has occurred : either the Treasurer spoke without being correct, or the Law Officers of the Crown have changed their opinion; for now we are told that the other moneys since advanced under similar circumstances are not likely to be recovered. Reverting now to the point at which I digressed, and dealing with what occurred in the Public Accounts Committee, I am now going to refer to something that is not to be discovered only by hunting up the archives of the colony but to something which was is in print and

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Officers of the Crown have changed their opinion ; for now we are told that the moneys since advanced under similar circumstances are not likely to be recovered. Bat-aew Eeverting agaia4e noio to the part at which I digressed, in dealing with what occurred in the Public Accounts Committee, aad I am now going to refer to wkat-eaa something that is not to be discovered only be-diseevered by hunting up the archives of the Government, but to something which was in priat-altaeuga print and 'which circulated but only for the information of those gentlemen who composed the Public Accounts Committee. It-was 1 refer to a letter, dated the 12th July, 1888, from the Agent-General to the Premier Colonial Treasurer, and, although we haw no previous correspondence was set out, the letter clearly indicates that it was called for forth by some communication from the Premier Colonial Treasurer to the Agent-General,—that the letter was probably written upon the lines indicated in a communication el from the Premier Colonial Treasurer. In that letter the Agent-General tells the Premier that "the opinion generally" in London is that default by the New Plymouth Harbour Board would have no more than " a tr-aasitory transient effect." Eemember that it was known that this Board was in difficulties. The Colonial Treasurer had himself announced the fact, and his announcement is reported in Hansard ia for 1888. And remember, too, that the payment of their the Board's interest would not fall due until a week more than a week after the conversion had boon was to have been effected. The letter goes on to say this—and I will use its very words themselves : It advises, that they with reference to the Board, that the colony should "tide over the next dividend somehow, as a pure matter of expediency." fe-tho oolony and advanoo tho monoyi Here is our high- wiaded toned AgentGeneral putting it on the ground of " pure " expediency that the Government should do something to deceive the moneyed public in London ! What are we coming to ? This is the Government of sound finance. This is the Government of high morality. This is the Government of specious pruaasesr faultless promise. It was.bad enough for the Agent-General to propound such a thing, but we have the Colonial Treasurer, ivho is also Premier, iv additiea adopting ais-epiaiea that advice, printing this letter, circulating amongst the Public Accounts Committee, and getting something from that Committee which, according to the Minister the other day, warranted the Treasurer in advancing this money. That there was any warrant, any authority, for doing so, no one who considers the matter will for a moment dare to sayr assert. What is a Committee but a few gentlemen delegated by the House to inquire into and report on any matter, and who, until this House has decided, they have no weight or authority ? And yet in that Committee, if I am correctly informed, by some juggle—by some one being gette prepese proposing that this money should not be advanced, and then by " the previous question " being carried —the Colonial Treasurer takes upon himself to advance the meaey cash to the NewPlymouth Harbour Board. That is what occurred. But that the loss of the money is not the most serious part of the matter. We, perhaps, can afford to lose this £5,000, but I doubt whether we can afford to lose the good name of the colony in connection with its finance. What was this letter written for but to enable the Colonial Treasurer to write Home to the Agent-General to promulgate on the Stock Exchange that tho next payment

which was circulated but only for the information of those gentlemen who composed the Public Accounts Committee. I refer to a letter, dated the 12th July, 1888P, from the Agent-General to the Colonial Treasurer, aad Although no previous correspondence was is set out, the letter clearly indicates that it was called forth by seme a communication from the Colonial Treasurer to the Agent-General,—that the letter was probably written upon the lines indicated in a communication from the Colonial Treasurer. In that letter the Agent-General tells the Colonial Treasurer that " the opinion generally" in London is that the default by the New Plymouth Harbour Board would have no more than " a transient effect." Eemember that it was known that this Board was in difficulties. The Colonial Treasurer had himself announced the fact, and his announcement is reported iv Hansard for 1888. And remember, too, that the payment of the Board's interest would not fall due until more than a week after the conversion was to have been effected. The letter goes on to say this —and I will use the very words themselves : It advises, with reference to the Board, that the colony should " tide over the next dividend somehow, as a pure matter of expediency." Here is our hightoned Agent-General putting it on the ground of " pure" expediency that the Government should do something to deceive the moneyed public in London ! What are we coming to ? Thin is Is this the Government of sound finance ? Is this the Government of high morality ? Is this the Government of faultless promise? It was bad enough for the Agent-General to propound such a thing, but wediave ivorse for the Colonial Treasurer, who is also Premier, to adoptiag that advice, printiag this letter, circulatiage it amongst the Public Accounts Committee, and gettiag something from that Committee which, according to the Minister the other day, warranted the Treasurer in advancing tlwMaeaey-r £4,992. That there was any warrant, any authority, for doing so, no one who considers the matter for a moment will dare to assert. What is a Committee but a few gentlemen delegated by the House to inquire into and report on aay a matter, and whe whose recommendations can, until this House has decided? adopted them, have no weight or authority ? And yet in that Committee, if I am correctly informed, by some juggle—by some one's feehig proposiagiiww that this money should not be advanced and then by " the previous question " being carried —the Colonial Treasurer takes took upon himself to advance the cash to the New Plymouth Harbour Board. That is what occurred. Bat The leaa loss of the money is not the most serious part of the matter. We, perhaps, can afford to lose this £5,000, but I doubt whether we can afford to lose the good name of the colony in connection with its finance. What was this letter written for but to enable the Colonial Treasurer to write Home to the Agent-General to promulgate on the Stock Exchange that the next payment by the New Plymouth Harbour Board would be duly made ? We thea thus see the Agent-General of thise colony fussing about London and assuring the people that the New Plymouth Harbour Board is all right! Dealing now with the con-version-loan in connection with which they this advance to the New Plymouth Harbour Board was made, we / find that the Loan Agents of the colony in Dunedin advertised for tenders for £2,700,000. The exact sum required for meeting the two loans was £2,595,300, so that the loan

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by the New Plymouth Harbour Board would be duly made ? Horo io We then see the AgentGeneral of this colony fussing about London and assuring the people that the New Plymouth Plarbour Board is all tight! havo wo getv—Tliio was-earr4ed-ea—tkroagh-4ke—Bean Agoats el—the Dealing now with the conversion-loan in connection with which this advance to the Neiv Plymouth Harbour Board was made, we find that the Loan Agents of the colony in London aad-the amount tendered for was advertised for tenders for £2,700,000. The exact sum required for meeting the two loans was £2,555,000 £2,595,300, so that the loan which they asked the public to subscribe for was £104,700 over the amount actually required to discharge the old indebtedness. Now, in the Financial Statement we are told that this has been done: and. a vory ouriouo thing ooourrod in yelereaeo to thateleae?—Tho -ameaat—advertised was £2£oo;ooo r aad-for-4hat-tbey that the Loan Agents have actually teek taken £70,000, or, in all, £2,770,000. lam not sufficiently acquainted with these matters to know whether or not it is usual when borrowing power ■ia-wakod fw a specific sum is asked for to take more Irem than the subscribers tk-B-a-hao boon advertised as the-amoaat-reqaired have been informed was intended to be taken. £70,000 is a wry small sum as compared to tho with £2,700,000 ; but, if once the principle is allowed, there is no limit to which it might not be carried. Why not accept every tender sent in as well as those for £70,000 more than were advertised for? Does it not reduce the security of those who have tendered on the basis of £2,700,000 to take from them £70,000 more ? Howovor is tho oiroo» The Colonial Treasurer, in his Financial Statement, says that " the papers relating to the negotiation of this loan will at once be laid oa-tho to.fele-at-eaee before Parliament." But they are not there yet on the table, and I shall look with a lasge-ameuat considerable degree of interest for the explanation of this last financial operation by our Loan Agents in London. One more reference to the Bank of New Zealand and I have done. Honourable gentlemen, looking at the Coasolidated Fund Account waieh-faas-beon circulated " Abstract of the Revenue and Expenditure of the Public Account" for the financial year ended the 31st March last, will see a sum of £800,000 on traiisit4roat4he-eelony to Lea-doa-ea4ho 3lot Mareh-this-yearr shown as " Remittances to London." That, Sir, was done, although there was a large surplus, which we might call a " free fealaaee money " in London to the credit of another fund, as well as the large uninvested balance already shown to have been uninvested of the Public Works Fund, but which certainly was equally the property of this colony, and surely might ho used available for temporary purposes. However, £800,000 howovor was seat in transit from this colony to London on the 31st March, aad That was a perfectly abnormal sum. In 1877, —and the distinction and comparison between the administration of those times and the present are somewhat instructive, —there was nothing in transit from this colony to London. A balance was there te-fee which was used for the temporary purposes in tho ohapo of paying interest and thus saving exchange. In the first year of this Ministry being in office, however, there was, on the 31st March, £200,000 in transit to London ; last year, on the corresponding date, there was £557,000 in transit; and this year there was £800,000. in tran sit-foom-thio colony to London Now, Sir, there is one other topic I would touch on. The honourable member for Waipa has gone through this

for which they asked the public to subscribe for was £104,700 over the amount actually required to discharge the old indebtedness. Now, in the Financial Statement we are told that this—has bcon-deae-f-that the Loan Agents have actually taken £70,000 in addition, or, in all, £2,770,000. I am not sufficiently acquainted with these such matters to know whether or not it is usual, when a specific sum is asked for, to take more than the subscribers have been informed was intended to be taken. Compared with £2,700,000, the sum of £70,000 is a small-earn trifle; but, if once the principle practice is allowed, there is no limit to which it might not be carried. Why not accept every tender sent in as well as those for £70,000 more than were advertised for? Does it not reduce the security of those who have tendered on the basis of £2,700,000 to take from them £70,000 more ? The Colonial Treasurer, in his Financial Statement, says said that the " papers relating to the negotiation of this loan will at once be laid before Parliament." But they are not yet on the table, and I shall look with a considerable degree of interest for the explanation of this last financial operation by our Loan Agents in London. One more reference to the Bank of New Zealand and I have done. Honourable gentlemen, looking at the " Abstract of the Eevenue and Expenditure of the Public Account" for the financial year ending the 31st March last, will see a sum of £804)00 £800,000 shown as " Eemittances to London." ThaVSir r was-deae seems to have been remitted this year, although there was a large considerable sum which we might call "free money" in London te-tke-erodit el-aaether-laad; under the head of " Advances," as well as the large uninvested balance already shown to have been aaiavested lying at the credit of the Public Works Funds, but which certainly was equally the property of this colony, and surely available for temporary purposes. However, £800,000 was in transit from this colony to London on the 31st March. That was a-perfootly abnormal earn an unnecessarily large sum, seeing that the interest and sinking-fund payments, due in April, did not exceed £600,000. In 1887, — and the distinction and comparison between the administration of these that times and the present are somewhat instructive, —there was nothing in transit from this colony to London. A balance was there which was used for the temporary purpose of paying interest and thus saving exchange. In the first year of this Ministry being in office, however, there was, on the 31st March, £200,000 in transit to London ; last year, on the corresponding date, there was £557,000 in transit; and this year there was £800,000. Now, Sir, there is only one other topic I would touch on. The honourable member for Waipa has gone through this Statement, and he has derived—l will not say comfort but—a certain amount of eaeearagemeat consolation because he gathers that it is here and there stated that we shall have no more borrowing. I say it is only necessary to look at the Tables attached to the Financial Statement to see that there is an absolute necessity, aad almost at once, for raising money—not to be spent in the colony — but for meeting engagements iv London, for transactions calculated to test the credit and strain the resources of the colony as much as any previous transactions. I have referred to the scheme for the conversion of the loans last year and suggested whether or not it was expedient then to raise the saavel £2,207,300 to meet the ten-forties ; —

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Financial Statement, and he has derived—l will not say comfort but—a certain amount of encouragement, because he gathers that it is here and there stated that we shall have no more borrowing. I say it is only necessary to look at the Tables attached to the Financial Statement to see that there is an absolute necessity, and at once, for raising money —not to be spent in the colony —but for meeting engagements in London, for transactions which are calculated to test the credit and strain the resources of the colony as much as any previous transactions. I referred to the scheme for the conversion of the loans last year and suggested whether or not it was act expedient to raise a the sum of £2,207,000 300 to meet the ten-forties; that, if it was not necessary, it-sheuld-fee-deae then they sfeeald might wait till an equally or a more favourable occasion offered itself. Now, what is the position in reference to the next year ? Honourable gentlemen will find this in thedafeles from Table No. 4 (pp. 43 and 44) attached to the Financial Statement, although no special remark is made with reference to the fact — although no it-es attention drawn to the-laet its importance- — that next year there are four loans falling due, amounting to afeeat £1,813,184 ; to meet which there is accrued sinking fund el amounting to £609,786, leaving £1,203,398, subject to some ether slight reductions in the shape of sinking fund that has-aeeraedda-Eeadeav may accrue in the meantime. The-dates-are-thereshew- r-»g-4aiie-aa<hNe¥emberjftshew»g-4hatethey-lall-dae sest-yearr Worse still, there is, in the year 1892, tke-fohWiag-year-tkere-ie a loan of £4,257,700 to be met. so that There is thus a total within the next two years of nearly five and a half millions to be met after taking credit for accrued sinking fund. But, Sir, we are to have "no more borrowing ! " Is it—a not this Financial Statement most illusive—a is it not most deceptive— in glossing over that-this-Geaselidat-ed-Faad-has4elt these facts to find a surplus for to call-it-thatewe-have claimed, to support which we must have a different meaning for the word when the next dictionary is issued in New Zealand. Is it not a mere glossing over of the Consolidated Fund, a cheating of our eyes, to say, as that Statement does, that we are to have no more borrowing, aad-yet-there4s4hat in the face of these five and a half millions sterling to be met within the next twenty-four months ? And that, Sir, will not be all. No prospect is held out of meeting this the £400,000 el debentures which were floated in 1887. They will have to be met also within that period. An Hon. Member.—To whom do they belong? Mr. HUTCHISON.—They belong to the Colonial Bank. I believe the Government claimed that they made a successful financial operation as -the-Bremier-teld-ee in the floating two years ago, although the feleem gill was taken off that statement by the publication, after the session, of the information that they had to pay £500 in stamp duty in London alone. However, this £400,000 of debentures have to be met. And, then, there are the loans to local bodies, which at present amount to £250,000. No provision is indicated for that amount. And in reference to these loans for local bodies, I, as a country member, have a complaint to make against the Colonial Treasurer. I speak feelingly, and I say that I and many other honourable members in this House, and certainly many of their constituents, have been rated specially to meet loans advanced under the-Acet-B-reler-te the Loans to Local Bodies Act, succeeding the Eoads and Bridges Construe-

that if it was were not necessary,, then they that the Colonial Treasurer might wait-till have waited until an equally or a more favourable occasion offered itself. Now, what is the position ia with reference to next year ? Honourable gentlemen will find from Table No. 4 (pp. 43 and 44) attached to the Financial Statement, although no special remark is made with reference to the fact, although no attention is drawn to its importance, that next year there are four loans falling due, amounting to £1,813,184 ; to meet which there is are accrued sinking funds amounting t0£609,786, leaving a balance of £1,203,398, subject to some slight reduction in the shape of sinking funds that may accrue in the meantime. Worse still, there is, in the year 1892, a loan of £4,257,700 to be met. There is thus a total within the next two years of nearly five and a half millions to be metj paid, after taking credit for accrued sinking funds. But, Sir, we are to have "no more borrowing !" Is not this Financial Statement most illusive—is it not most deceptive—in glossing over these facts, to find with a surplus claimed, to support which we must have a diSereat new meaning for the word when the next dictionary is issued in New Zealand? Is it not a mere glessiag—ever—el—the—Geaselidated—F-aad pal tering with the truth, a mere cheating of our eyes, to say state, as thafa's Statement does, that we are to have no more borrowing, in the face of these five-and-a-half millions sterfiag to be met within the next twenty-four months ? And that, Sir, will not be all. No prospect is held out of meeting the £400,000 of debentures which were floated in 1887. They will have to be met also within that period. An Hon. Membee.—To whom do they belong? _ Mr._ HUTCHISON.— They belong to the. Colonial Bank. I believe the Government claim that they made a very successful financial operation ia by the floating of these debentures two years ago, although the gilt was has been taken off that statement by the publication, after the last session, of the information that they we had to pay £500 in stamp duty in London, aleaet However, thisese £400,000 of debentures will have to be met. And, then, there are the loans to local bodies, which at present amount to £250,000. No provision is indicated for that ameaat debt. A-ad-ia With reference to these loans fes to local bodies, I, as a country member, have a complaint to make against the Colonial Treasurer. I speak feelingly, and I say that I and many other honourable members in this House, and certainly many of theis our constituents, have been rated specially to meet loans advanced under the Loans to Local Bodies Act, succeeding the Roads and

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tion Act. We Settlers in various parts of the colony have had a succession of advances of these awaeys-4a-pay-fe which they have been repaying at the rate of 5 per Cent., of which 1 per cent, was to go to form a sinking fund. It But it has not been devoted to that purpose, however for tho Let it be told the Colonial Treasurer that he has collared our sinking fund. Mr. KERR.—What has beee he done with it ? Mr. HUTCHISON.—He has put it in the surplus ! Then, Sir, there is the deficit el in the Land Fund. Tlio honearablo member for—Waipa roforrod to it rnoro. than-onoo, and There is no prospect of meeting-it it being met in the ordinary way, and we may must, I think fear, look forward to the— fact that—there will be there being a further deficit within the next two years. Therefore, if we put down £70,000 ia-respoct of as representing the deficit of the Land Fund as it will be in 1892, we will not be exaggerating the amount. This is the matter on which the Premier very blandly says, " I do not propose to deal with it this year; " but he some one will have to deal with it next year or the year after. There is no doubt about it, aad when this large amount loan has to be floated, ha-will-have to take into consideratioa consideration will have to be given to the claims of certain parts of this colony to an extension of the railway system. The honourable member for Dunedin South has indicated that the Otago people will not be satisfied until they get an extension of the Central, and I think the people of the North Island, or this part of it, will not be satisfied until the gap between Woodville and Eketahuna is completed, and the railway system of the north and east with this part of the colony connected Island. If we put down a million for these purposes we ase will not at-all bo overstating the amount that will be required. Then there is, I am afraid, almost too certainly, £200,000 to be provided for the New Plymouth Harbour Board. I do not know if the representatieas payment which the Colonial Treasurer saeeeeded4a ventured on making upon the doubtful authority of the Public Accounts Committee last session was more intended to cover a conversion scheme which would mature at the a time ol prior to the issue payment of the debentures, or whether it was not te place on rather to saddle this colony with a liability for the New Plymouth Harbour Board. You will remember that that the claims of the Board hasve always been treated fey tho Prcmier-as-a-oponial -agfoomcnt, aad it io a very special agreement as peculiar; and so they are, for, now that no further money can be advanced, the Board has defaulted, and the bondholders in London are aow entitled to put in a Receiver, who will be entitled to a place on the-Barbear-Beard at the Treasury Board and a seat also at the Land Board of Taranaki, in order to secure for-his-elieats the 25 per cent, of its-eatire the land revenue aad-he will aloo have-a-seat provided—ler—him on the-Laad Beard of the provincial district —a humiliating position for any colony to be placed in. te4ia¥e-a The bailiff is in possession. We may dress him up, as Charles Dickens is said to have done, as a liveried servant, but he will be a. bailiff all the same and will not retire until his claim is satisfied. If we now add up these various sums that I have tieaedy-aad-il-we-are-eapable-el-provißg-the-espease-esisteaee-el-eaea enumerated, and we add the expenses necessary for floating such a loan, we come within very little short of eight millions ! What does the honourable member for Waipa think of the Financial Statement now? Within, I say,

3—l. 8.

Bridges Construction Act. Settlers in various parts of the colony have had a—saeeeesion of advaaee%—which -thoy have—feeea to repayiag advances so made at the rate of 5 per cent., of which 1 per cent, wao to go should have gone to form a sinking fund. But it4ias-aet nothing has been devoted to that purpose. Let it be told the Colonial Treasurer that he has collared our sinking fund. Mr. KERR.—What has he done with it ? Mr. HUTCHISON.—He has put it in the 7m surplus ! Then, Sir, there is the deficit in the Land Fund. There is no prospect of it that being mot in the ordinary course, and we must, I fear, look forward to there being a further deficit within the next two years. Tfeereler% If we put down £70,000 as representing the deficit of the Land Fund as it will be in 1892, we will probably not be exaggerating the amount. This is the matter on which the Premier very blandly says, "I do not propose to deal with it this year;" but some one will have to deal with it next year or the year after. Then, there is no doubt about it, when this large loan has to be floated, consideration will have to be given to the claims of certain parts of thise colony te for an extension of the railway system. The honourable member for Dunedin South has indicated that the Otago people will not be satisfied until they get an extension of the Central, and I think the people of the North Island, or this part of it, will not be satisfied until thate gap between Woodville and Eketahuna is completed, and the railway system of the north and oaot and west thus connected with this-part-ef—the—4slaadv Wellington. If wo put down a million for tkeeo-parpeeee railway extension we will not be overstating the amount that will be required. Then there is, lam afraid, almost too certainly, £200,000 to be provided for the New Plymouth Harbour Board. Ido not know if the payment which the Colonial Treasurer ventured on making upon the doubtful pretended authprity of the Public Accounts Committee of last session was more intended to cover a the conversion scheme, which would mature at a time prior to the payment of the debentures, or whether it was not rather to saddle this colony with a the liability lor of the New Plymouth Harbour Board. You will remember that the claims of theis Board have always been treated as peculiar; and so they are, for, now that no further money can be advanced, the Board has defaulted, and the bondholders in London are. entitled to put in a Receiver, who will bo entitled te may claim to have a place at the TreasuryBoard and a seat also at the Land Board of Taranaki, in order to secure the 25 per cent, of the land revenue of theai provincial district—a humiliating position for any colony to be placed in. The bailiff is in possession. We may dress him up, as Charles Dickens is said to have done, as a liveried servant, but he will be a bailiff all the same and will not retire until his claim is satisfied. If wo now add up these various sums that which I have enumerated, and if we add the expenses necessary for floating such a loan, we come within very a little of eight millions ! What does the honourable member for Waipa think of the Financial Statement now ? Within, I say, a year or two this colony will have to find eight millions in the London market, or become default. This It is enough to make a man ill. aad I do not marvel at the absence of the Colonial Treasurer. A year ago he was hale and stalwart—one whose giant strength men talked of; and now he has

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two or throo years a year or two this colony will have to find eight millions ea in the London market, or become default. This is enough to make a man ill, and I do not marvel at the absence of the Colonial Treasurer. A year ago he was hale and stalwart — one whose giant strength men talked of; A fow montho ago hao boon otriokon down, and now he has broken down t It id oortainly There has been, indeed, sufficient cause. What is our outlook ? We have—got—to hand this-eolony dowa wish to " leave this land as a noble heritage to our children ;" but it will have to be done by better men than, those who at present hold the Treasury benches. I will not, whatever I may think,' refer to any honourable gentlemen as tho pimps and panders of meaey-ageats banks and loan and mortgage companies, because that would be unparliamentary, but I deplore the fact that the geatlomea-ea taose-beaehes-are—geatleatea-wheso comlaet conduct of those who occupy the Government benches has been such as cannot be described in parliamentary language, aad-impeaefaed- for being tho panders— ef-a— baak-4e-whieh They have sacrificed the interests of this colony through three long years, aad-that We are not safe for one single hour while these gentlemen have control of the finances of the colony. No wonder that they cling to office. No wonder that they want this moribund Parliament, meeting in what I may fee called a this mortuary chamber, to grant them supplies for tke-foarth another year. We are under a system of triennial Parliaments and yet they we are asked as to vote supplies for a fourth year, so that those gentlemen may hold office till next session. I hope they will not succeed. However, whatever the temper of this House ma)- be —whatever may be the numerical divisions of this House—l take leave to say, with unusual boldness, that out of doors they the Government have not a majority, and that on the hustings they will be impeached and that by tho eloclioas at the ballot-box they will be condemned.

i broken down ! There has been, indeed, sufficient cause. What is our outlook ? We wish to " leave i this land as a noble heritage to our children." s feat It will have to be done by better men than • those who at present hold the Treasury benches. i I will not, whatever I may think, refer to aayi these honourable gentlemen as the pimps and panders of banks and loan and mortgage coini panics, because that would be unparliamentary: • but I deplore the fact that the conduct of those : who occupy the Government benches has been such as cannot be described in parliamentary language. They have sacrificed the interests of this colony through three long years. We are not safe for one single hour while these gentlemen have control of the finances of the colon}-. No wonder that they cling to office, and that they ivish to postpone their day of reckoning. No wonder that they want this moribund Parliament, meeting in what I may call this mortuary chamber, to grant them supplies for another year. We are under a system of triennial Parliaments and yet we are asked to vote supplies for a fourth year, so that those gentlemen may hold office till next session. I hope they will not succeed. Haweve*; Whatever the temper of this House may be —whatever may be the numerical divisions el in this House—l take leave to say, with unusual feeldaess confidence, that out of doors the Government have not a majority, aad that On the hustings they will be impeached and at the ballot-box they will be condemned.

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