FURTHER PAPERS RELATIVE TO THE APPORTIONMENT OF THE PUBLIC DEBT OF THE PROVINCES OF WELLINGTON AND HAWKE'S BAY.

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1868 Session I, B-05

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FURTHER PAPERS RELATIVE TO THE APPORTIONMENT OF THE PUBLIC DEBT OF THE PROVINCES OF WELLINGTON AND HAWKE'S BAY.

(In continuation of Papers presented 20th July, 1865.)

PRESENTED TO BOTH HOUSES OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, BY COMMAND OF HIS EXCELLENCY.

WELLINGTON.

1868.

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FURTHER PAPERS RELATIVE TO THE APPORTIONMENT OF THE PUBLIC DEBT OF THE PROVINCES OF WELLINGTON AND HAWKE'S BAY.

No. 1. His Honor I. E. Featherston" to the Hon. E. W. Stafford. Superintendent's Office, Sir,— Wellington, 6th November, 1865. I do myself the honor to request that you will be good enough to direct the payment of the sum of twelve hundred and fifty.pounds to the Provincial Treasurer of Wellington, being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. The amounts required in London to pay the dividends due on the 31st of December next, were remitted by the European Mail of last month. I have, &c., I. E. Feathebstom', The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 2. The Hon. E. W. Stafford to His Honor I. E. Featherstoit. (No. 417.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 30th November, 1865. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the Gth instant, and in reply to inform you that the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of (£1,250) twelve hundred and fifty pounds on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Wellington. E. W. Staffoed.

No. 3. The Hon. E. W. Stafford to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 418.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 30th November, 1865. I have the honor to inform you that the Eeceiver of Land Revenue at Napier has been instructed to pay over to the Sub-Treasurer at that place the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), aqxl the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay that amount to the Provincial Treasurer, on account of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Stafford.

No. 4 Mr. J. Knowles to the Hon. E. W. Stafford. Superintendent's Office, Sib, — Wellington, 4th December, 1865. I do myself the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 30th November (No. 417), and beg to thank you for having instructed the Assistant-Treasurer to pay into the Provincial Treasury, the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's -Bay of the interest on the permanent debt of the Wellington Province as originally constituted. I have, &c, JonN Knowles The Hon. the Colonial Secretary, Wellington. (in the absence of the Superintendent).

No. 5. His Honor I. E. Featheeston to the Hon. E. W. Stafford. (No. 52-66.) Superintendent's Office, Sin,— Wellington, 25th April, 1866. I do myself the honor to request that you will be good enough to direct the payment to the Provincial Treasurer of this Province of the sum of £1,250, being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. The amounts required in London to pay the dividends duo on the 30th June next were remitted by the last European Mail. I have, &c, I. E. Featherston, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

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No. 6. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 160.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 3rd May, 1866. I have the honor to inform you that the Receiver of Land Revenue at Napier has been instructed to pay over to the Sub-Treasurer at that place the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds, and the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay that amount to the Provincial Treasurer on account of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Stafford.

No. 7. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Hon. I. E. Featiieeston. (No. 162.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 3rd May, 1866. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 25th. ultimo, and in reply to inform you that the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of (£1,250) twelve hundred and fifty pounds, on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay of the interest of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent. Wellington. E. W. Staffoed.

No. 8. His Honor I. E. Featheeston to the Hon. E. W. Staffoed. (No. 70-66.) Superintendent's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 7th May, 1866. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 3rd instant (No. 162) informing me that the Assistant-Treasurer has been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), on account of Hawke's Bay's share of the interest on the permanent debt of this Province, and in reply to tender my best thanks for your prompt compliance with my request. I have, &c, I. E. Featiieestox, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 9. His Honor I. E. Featheeston to the Hon. E. W. Staffoed. Superintendent's Office, Sic,— • Wellington, 9th October, 1866. I do myself the honor to request that you will be good enough to direct the payment to the Provincial Treasurer of this Province of the sum of £1,250, being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. The amount required in London to pay the dividends due on the 31st day of December next will bo remitted by the Suez Mail of the 17th instant. I have, &c, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. I. E. Featheestos-, Superintendent.

No. 10. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Honor I. E. Featiiebston. (JSTo. 323.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 17th October, 1866. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 9th instant, and in reply to inform you that the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay of the interest of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington, due on the 31st December next. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Wellington. . E. W. Staffoed.

No. 11. The Hon. E. W. Stafford to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 324.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 17th October, 1866. I have the honor to inform you that the Receiver of Land Revenue at Napier has been instructed to pay over to the Sub-Treasurer at that place the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), and the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay that amount to the Provincial Treasurer, on account of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington, due on the 31st December next. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Stafford.

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No. 12. His Honor I. E. Peatiieestcot to the Hon. E. W. Staffobd. Superintendent's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 23rd October, 1866. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 17th instant, informing mo that the Assistant-Treasurer had been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds, on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay of the interest of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington, and in reply to tender my best thanks for your prompt compliance with my request. I have, &c, I. E. Peatiiebstos', The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 13. His Honor I. E. Featheestost to the Hon. E. W. Staffobd. Superintendent's Office, Sic,— Wellington, Bth April, 1867. I do myself the honor to request that you will bo good enough to direct the payment to the Provincial Treasurer of this Province of the sum of £1,250, being the amount due on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington by the Province of Hawke's Bay. The amount required in London to pay the dividends due on the 30th June next has been .remitted by this day's mail. I have, &c, I. E. Featiieestos", The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. . Superintendent.

No. 14. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 119.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 17th April, 1867. I have the honor to inform you that the Receiver of Land Revenue at Napier has been instructed to pay over to the Sub-Treasurer at that place the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), and the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay that amount to the Provincial Treasurer on account of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c., His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Staffobu.

No. 15. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Honor I. E. Peatiieestcot. (No. 120.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic — Wellington, 17th April, 1867. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the Bth instant, and in reply to inform you that the Assistant-Treasurer at Wellington has been instructed to pay into the Provincial Treasury the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay of the interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Wellington. E. W. Staffoed.

No. 16. His Honor I. E. Featueeston to the Hon. E, W. Staffoed, Superintendent's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 10th October, 1867. I do myself the honor to request that you will be good enough to direct the payment to the Provincial Account of this Province at the Bank of New South "Wales of the sum of £1,250, being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. The amount required in London to pay the dividends duo on the 31st December next will be forwarded by the Suez Mail of the 17th instant. 1 have, &c, I. E. Featheestox, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 17. The Hon. E. W. Staffobd to his Honor I. E. Peathebston. (No. 315.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— "Wellington, 7th December, 1867. Adverting to the letter of the 10th of October last, from the Provincial Secretary requesting tlie payment of the sum of one thousand two hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250), being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of "Wellington, I have the honor to state that there has been some difficulty in arriving at a decision on this matter, as " The Public llevenues 2

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Act, .1867," only authorizes stoppage out of Provincial revenue for payments made on account of any services which are chargeable by law, and this sum is not made a charge by law. Taking, however, into consideration the fact that some interval of time must elapse before the provisions of " The Public Revenues Act, 1807," can be brought into practical operation, and that the precise amount now claimed, although not charged by law, is at the rate claimed to bo paid, and paid since the separation of the Provinces of Wellington and Hawke's Bay, the Government has thought it right, under these special circumstances, to make the payment of one thousand two hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250) into the Provincial Treasury of Wellington, and to direct an equal sum to be stopped out of the revenues of the Province of Hawke's Bay, and instructions have been given accordingly. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Wellington. E. W. Staffoed.

No. 18. The Hon. E. W. Stafford to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 316.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 9th December, 1867. I have tie honor to transmit for your Honor's information the enclosed copies of a letter from the Provincial Secretary of Wellington, and of the reply thereto, relative to the payment of one thousand two hundred and fifty pounds, being the amount due on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay for interest on the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Stafford.

Ante TSos. 16 and 17.

No. 19. His Honor D. McLean to the Hon. E. W. Staffob:i>. Superintendent's Office, Sic, — Napier, 11th February, 1868. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 9th December, 1867, in reference to the payment of interest on the Wellington debt. Repeated efforts have been made on the part of this Province to adjust the claim advanced against it by the Province of Wellington. The Commissioners appointed by the Provincial Council of Hawke's Bay have at all. times, endeavoured to bring about a settlement, but the advances made by them have been almost entirely disregarded by the Commissioners appointed by the Provincial Council of Wellington. Under these circumstances, and feeling desirous that an equitable adjustment of this long-pending question should bo concluded, I have the honor to request that you will not make any further advances on account of the interest claimed from Hawke's Bay until a reference of the whole question of accounts between the Provinces is made to the Supreme Court, or such other tribunal as may be agreed upon. I have, &c, Donald McLean, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 20. The Hon. E. W. Staffoed to His Honor D. McLean. (]N ro. G2.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sin,— Wellington, 29th February, 1868. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 11th instant, in reference to the payment by the Province of Hawke's Bay of interest on the debt of the original Province of Wellington, and to state that a copy of your letter has been communicated to His Honor the Superintendent of that Province, with a view to arriving at some satisfactory determination of this long vexed question. 1 have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Staffoed.

No. 21. The Hon. J. C. Richmond to His' Honor I. E. Featiieeston. Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, 3rd March, 1808. I have to enclose a copy of a letter, dated the 11th February last, from His Honor the Superintendent of Hawke's Bay, on the subject of the payment by the Province of Hawke's Bay of interest on the debt of the original Province of Wellington. It is important, on obvious grounds, that the question at issue between the two Provinces should be settled at as early a date as possible, and I have to invite your Honor's attention to the matter in. the hope of attaining that object. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Wellington. J. C. Richmond (for the Colonial Secretary).

Ante No. 19.

No. 22. His Honor I. E. Fbaxhebstoit to the Hon. E. W. Staitoed. - Superintendent's Office, SlE,— Wellington, 21st April, 1868. I do myself the honor to request that you will be good enough to direct the payment to the Provincial Treasury of this Province of the sum of £1,250, being the amount due by the Proyinco

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of Hawke's Bay on account of the interest of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. The amount required in London to pay the dividends due on the Ist July next has to be remitted by first mail. I have, &c, (for and in the absence of the Superintendent,) W. Hickson, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Provincial Secretary and Treasurer.

No. 23. His Honor D. McLean to the Hon. E. W. Stajtobd. Superintendent's Office, Sic,— Napier, 21st April, IS6B. Pending the adjustment of the amount of interest payable by Hawke's Bay on account of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington, and having reference to the correspondence which has recently taken place on the subject, I have the honor to request that you will have the goodness to cause a refund to be made to this Province of the sum of £1,250, the unauthorized payment of which to Wellington is referred to in your letter to His Honor the Superintendent of that Province, of the 7th December last. I have, &c, Donald McLean, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

Col. Sec. to Supt. Wellington, 7tli Doc, 1867. Col. Sec. to Supt. Napier, 9th Dec, 1867. Supt. of Hawke's Bay to Col. Sec. 11th Feb., 1868. Col. Sec. to Supt. Hawke's Bay, 29th Feb., 1868.

No. 24. His Honor I. E, Ejsatheeston to the Hon. E. W. Staitobd. Superintendent's Office, Sir, — Wellington, 30th April, 1808. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 3rd ultimo, enclosing a copy of a letter addressed to you by the Superintendent of Hawke's Bay, in which His Honor requests that the General Government will decline to make, on behalf of the Province of Hawke's Bay, any further advances for payment of interest and sinking fund on the Loans of £100,000 contracted by the Province of Wellington at the time that Hawke's Bay formed part of it. In reply, I beg to bring the following facts under your consideration: — 1. In 18G1, by agreement between the Representatives of Wellington and Hawke's Bay, the following resolution was passed by the House of Representatives : — " (7.) Resolved, that-pending the final apportionment of the permanent debt of the Provinces of Wellington and Hawke's Bay, this House will authorize out of the moneys which will accrue, due to the Treasury of Hawke's Bay during the current financial year under " The Surplus Revenue Act, 1858," and " The Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 1858," an advance to the Treasurer of the Province of Wellington of the sum of two thousand five hundred pounds (£2,500) on account of the interest accruing upon such permanent debt —such payment to be taken into account on the final apportionment of the said debt as aforesaid, together with the advances of £2,500 on the 9th June, 1860, of £2,500 on the 12th February, 1861, and of £3,000 on the 11th May, 1861, respectively, heretofore made by the Colonial Treasurer on the same account out of the Land Purchase Sixths of the Province of Hawke's Bay; provided that such payment shall not prejudice the question of amount, either of principal or interest, on the final settlement of the whole question." This agreement has hitherto been carried out by the General Government without any demur on the part of the Government of Hawke's Bay. 2. In 1862, the Provincial Council of Wellington passed an Act, Session 9, No. 5, appointing Commissioners "to adjust the amounts payable by the Provinces of Wellington and Hawke's Bay in discharge of the loans raised by the Province of Wellington as originally constituted, and for the adjustment of all matters of account between the two Provinces." 3. So far from repeated efforts having been used on behalf of the Province of Hawke's Bay to adjust the claim advanced against it by this Province, the Commissioners of Hawke's Bay, on the only occasion on which an attempt was made to adjust the accounts, refused to go into the case unless the principles which they insisted should form the basis of adjustment were assented to by the Commissioners of Wellington. 4. Mr. McLean and Mr. Ormond, two of the Hawke's Bay Commissioners, have been repeatedly in Wellington —sometimes attending sessions of the General Assembly—and yet they have never broached the subject of the adjustment of the debt between the two Provinces. 5. The Government of Wellington always have been and still are desirous of effecting an adjustment, and will agree to any proposal that may be made by His Excellency's Ministers to accomplish this object. Under these circumstances, I respectfully submit that it would be unfair on the part of His Excellency's Government to refuse to pay, on behalf of the Hawke's Bay Government, the amount mentioned in the resolution of the House of Representatives as the sum for which Hawke's Bay should be held liable, pending the final settlement of the whole question. I have, &c, I. E. ]?EATIIEESTON, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 25. The Hon. T. M. Haultain to His Honor D. McLean. (No. 127.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sib,— Wellington, Ist May, 1868. I Lave to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 21st ultimo, requesting that, pending the adjustment of the amount of interest payable by the Province of Hawke's Bay on account

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of the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington, a refund may be made to the Province of Hawke's Bay of the sum of twelve hundred and fifty pounds paid in December last on this account by the General Government on behalf of that Province. In my letter No. 62 of the 29th February last, your Honor was informed that a copy of your letter of the 11th of February last, on this subject, was communicated to His Honor the Superintendent of the Province of Wellington. I now enclose a copy of his reply, dated the 30th ultimo. On the 21st ultimo, His Honor applied for a further payment of twelve hundred and fifty pounds (£1,250) on the same account, in order to pay in London the dividends due on the Ist of July next. The Government has carefully considered this question. The practice adopted by the General Government for several years has been to make periodical payments on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay in this debt, in order to enable the Provincial Government of Wellington to pay the interest as it became duo. The Superintendent of Wellington has to remit the money to London for payment on the Ist July next, and he states that he cannot meet this obligation unless the usual payment on account of the Province of Hawke's Bay be made: and the General Government is advised that there is a charge imposed by law on the Province of Hawke's Bay for a portion of the interest on the debt in question. Moreover, " The Public Debts Act, 1867," has imposed on the Colony a liability for this debt. Under these circumstances, the Government would not be justified in deviating from the practice hitherto adopted of advancing this money out of the Provincial share of the revenue accruing to the Province of Hawke's Bay under " The Public Revenues Act, 1867," and have given directions accordingly. It is very desirable that this vexatious question, which has remained open for so long a time, should be definitely settled, and the Government will be willing to render every aid to effect that adjustment. I have, &c, T. M. Hatjltain His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. (for the Colonial Secretary).

No. 2G. The Hon. T. M. ILvraTAnr to His Honor I, E. Featiieestok. (No. 130.) Colonial Secretary's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 4th May, 1868. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 30th ultimo, and to transmit to you the enclosed copy of a letter which I have addressed to His Honor the Superintendent of Hawke's Bay, on the subject of the adjustment of the amount of interest payable by the Province of Hawke's Bay on account of the permanent debt of the original Province-of Wellington. I have, &c, T. M. HaxiltaisHis Honor the Superintendent of Wellington. (for the Colonial Secretary).

Ante No. 25,

No. 27. His Honor I. E. Featiiebston to the Hon. E. W. Stafford. Superintendent's Office, Sic,— Wellington, 6th May, 1868. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 4th instant, together with its enclosure, relative to the payment of interest due to this Province from Hawke's Bay, and to tender you my thanks for the same. I have, &c, I. E. Featiieksxos", The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 28. His Honor D. McLean to the Hon. E. W. Stafford. Superintendent's Office, Sib,— Napier, 9th May, 1868. I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the Ist instant, enclosing copy of a letter from His Honor the Superintendent of Wellington, dated 30th April, 18G8. In reply, I beg to inform you that the Provincial Government of Hawke's Bay feel surprised that the sum of £1,250 should have been paid by you on account of the interest of the permanent debt of the Province of Wellington after the request contained in my communication of the 11th February last, that no such payment should be made until the accounts between the Province of Wellington and the Province of Hawke's Bay should have been referred to some proper tribunal. As the rejiresentative of the Government of this Province, I deem it my duty to protest against such payment, and to request that the amount may without delay be refunded to the Treasury. Should you not bo prepared to comply with this request, I shall feel obliged, in pursuance of the opinion of my advisers and of a resolution of the Provincial Council, to have recourse to the Supreme Court in order to prevent such payments from being made. At the same time, I cannot allow the statements contained in the letter of His Honor the Superintendent of Wellington, before referred to, to pass without observation. 1. With reference to the resolution passed by the House of Representatives in 1861, I beg to observe that the operation of that resolution was confined by its very words to the period of the current financial year. It is true that the General Government have continued to act upon this resolution, but they have done so in the face of remonstrances on the part of this Government.

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2. Anxious to meet any just liability against the Province, I would again repeat that several efforts have been made on behalf of Hawke's Bay to adjust the claim advanced against it by the Province of Wellington. Commissioners were appointed by an Act of Council and terms of compromise were proposed by them, one of such terms being, that in the event of their proposals not being acceded to the whole matter should be referred to arbitration. These proposals were in effect entirely rejected. 3. After the conversations on this subject which took place between us during your late visit to Auckland, I was under the firm impression that no further payment would be made on account of the interest of the debt before mentioned to the prejudice of this Province. 4. For the reasons given in the previous correspondence, I now protest against all payments made by the Colonial Government on account of the interest in question, and in particular against the last payment of £1,250, which has been made in opposition to the repeated objections urged, against such payments, and contrary to what I was led to expect would have been the action of the General Government under the circumstances. I intend to have a meeting of the Provincial Council at an early date, and shall feel obliged by your favouring me with a reply to this communication by the next mail from Wellington. I have, &c, Donald McLean, The Hon. the Colonial Secretary. Superintendent.

No. 29. The Hon. E. "W". Staffoeb to His Honor D. McLean. Colonial Secretary's OiSce, Sib,— Wellington, 22nd May, 1868. I have to acknowledge the receipt of your Honor's letter of the 9th instant, protesting against any payments on account of the share of the Province of Hawke's Bay in the permanent debt of the original Province of Wellington. I am unable to give a definite reply to your Honor's letter until I have had an opportunity of consulting the Attorney-General, who is at present at Hokitika ; but it seems to me that a final and satisfactory settlement of this question, which has so long been in dispute, can only be effected by the General Assembly. I have, &c, His Honor the Superintendent, Hawke's Bay. E. W. Staitoed.