PUBLIC WORKS AND IMMIGRATION BILL.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 699, 19 August 1870, Page 2

PUBLIC WORKS AND IMMIGRATION BILL.

The following is Mr Vogel'a speech in reply on the debate which ensued on the motion for the second reading of the above Bill. The motion waß carried by 45 to 7, the minority being Colonel Haultain, Mr Jollie, Mr Munro, Mr Richmond, Mr R. G. Wood,' Mr Collins, and Mr J. Cracroft Wilson, C.B.:— Pi I was not prepared for this discussion, bat I am exceedingly glad it has taken place, and I thank the hon. member for Coleridge for taking the responsibility of doing that whioh: I am sorry was not done before, namely, testing the opinion of the House upon the principles of the bill. The hon. member has acted in a manner for which I hare every reason to be thankful, as I should like to hare the opinions of hon. members upon the bill, and I do not see how that result could be achieved more effectually than by the motion that the bill be read this day six months. He baa dope, I must say, good., service to the Government. It would be impossible to carry a bill through the House ihs; the face of what I might call masked batteries. The Government should know those , who are in favour of the bill, and those who are opposed to it. I can say that the - debate to-night is in that respect very satisfactory. For instance, there is the hon. member for Grey and Bell (Mr 3. C. Richmond), who, we were previously told, had bad our policy floating in his mind for years, who to-night picks the bill to pieces - from beginning to end. The hon. membcc for Heathcote spoke more savagely about the bill, that is, in manner, but his remarks were not severe. He found out additional pointa, which he thought more or less weak ; be seemed to go through the bill in the spirit of a revenue officer, or a policeman, with a foregone conclusion that if it could the

Government would act dishonestly. But no bill of this kindeould be passed through the House by a Government not possessing the confidence of the House. It it a bill under which the Government necessarily ask for Jarge powers, therefore, to pass it, the House should have faith in the Government, and, also, therefore, the hon. member for Heathcote, in supporting this bill, should understand that he should also support the Government. I will just touch- upon some of the objections that have been raised against the bill. For instance, in reference to the power of appointment, I say tbat it is necessary to give that power to thVGovernment. I have no objection to reasonable limitations, but you cannot carry out an Act of this kind without conceding large powers. Whether it be the existing or any other Government, under a bill of this kind the House may be Certain that there will be large powers in the bands of the Government. The hon. member for Gladstone repeated his objections to the bill. lam sure they are sincere. The hon. member takes an ultra-Conservative view of bur policy, and believes that it has been framed to catch the public vote. I really think that the hon. member is one of those ■who entirely believe in the view, that any public measure which commands the confidence of the people must be mischievous. My hon. friend the member for Avon gives expression to his doubts and fears. I do not know what he thinks about this bill. It is exceedingly unsatisfactory to him, be says, in many particulars — it does not accord with his views — and yet he will vote for the second reading. He says, "I am prepared to make concessions, and I hope that the Government will make concessions in the same spirit." He complains of the bill being less provincial in its character than when it was introduced j and tbat is the case. If this bill pass in a shape in which it will be less directly available for the provinces than it originally was, the hon. member will hare himself to blame for it. He cannot expect, when he speaks, that it can be with the potency and effect of one identified with a party. No doubt he says, " Am I not an independent member ? Is it possible to conceive such an idea as tbat I would vote in a way that I do not believe in, and tbat is contrary to my conscience ?" But the hon. member does not understand, and will not allow himself in the slightest degree to know, what is meant by party government. The consequence is, that he flies like a comet through space. If the hon. member had acted with the Government in this matter, we might not have been forced to make such concessions as we have been forced to make ; and if be cannot now make the measure all that he would like, he has only himself to blame for it. I dare say tbat to the hon. member it seems sinful even to suggest that ha should vote for proposals which do not precisely represent his beliefs — but that is party government. Whatever may be the peculiar opinions of a member, they must be modified to suit the party with which he may be identified. There must be cohesion, or else there will not be power. I know that the hon. member thinks itvery cruel, ® and very bard on him, that he should be told all this, and for the Government not to make concessions to him as they would to the leader of a large party; but Ido not wish a single vote to be given this evening for the Government under false pretenceß. I can hold out no hope to the hon. member that the Government will make concessions to the extent that be proposes, nor has he any claim to ask concessions. The Government will not decline to listen to any reasonable objection, but it will be firm in carrying the bill through as it stands, so far as priaciples are concerned. Bather than do otherwise, the Government would prefer to abandon the bill. I hope the House understands me, tbat we do not seek to presume on the power of a dominant majority; but still, it would be wrong to lead *•' the hon. member to think that we could consent io the modifications which he appears to require. The hon. member says that the bill will be carried by the strongest antagonists of the Government, and that the bill ißnot made clear, because certain words are not sufficiently definite. He is right tbat if this bill passes, it will be partly by the aid of hon. members who are in the habit of opposing the Government. In the financial statement the Government expressed the hope that measures containing such large proposals would be regarded apart from all party considerations. It would be madness on our part, after bringing forward such measures, if we did not welcome support even from amongst those who have been in the habit of opposing us. I agree with the hon. member, that those who are in the habit of opposing us will have some share in the shaping of the Bill. I will also gay that there are those amongst the supporteis of the- Government who have been consistent supporters of proTineialism, — who are sufficiently astute to understand the direction of these amendments quite as clearly as the hon. member himself understands it — but who are willing to accept these Bills, because they are patriotic enough to tbink that, valuable as are our provincial institu- ■ tions, they must be prepared, when called upon, to make sacrifices if necessary in order to proceed upon the great work of colonisation. This bill has been accepted in the most frank spirit by hon. members who for years K paßt have been strong supporters of provincialism—the hon. member for Clutha (Mr Macandrew), for instance. I believe that that hon. member would sooner cut off his right haiyl tban support this bill, if he thought it was a covert political attack on provincialism. But it is because of the good that is ... in it, and because he believes the Govern- . t ment will not misuse it, that he supports it, ;{* although it is not entirely in the form which < he would approve. The hon. member for Avon says that the bill is not made clear upon certain points. I say, with all respect for the hon. member, and for tbat exclusive spirit which refuses to see that there are different features in different parts of the >■ ccuntrj-, that when he speaks of certain points

which are not made clear, he means that the bill is intended to be of a nature which will apply to the different circumstances which exist throughout the country. A bill which would simply suit the circumstances of one part of the country — the part, for instance. in which the hon. member resides, and over which he presides— would not apply to the whole country. The hon. member means that the provisions of the bill do not specially apply to one part of the country. I say that this bill, in adaptability, is like the trunk of an elephant— capable of picking up a pin, or of knocking down the strongest man ; it may be used for constructing half a dozen yards of railway, or it may be used for constructing as many hundred miles. The bill may be used for bringing out immigrants to suit the different circumstances of the various parts of the country. It may be desirable to bring immigrants out under particular circumstances toCanterbury.orunderdifferentcircumstances to some other part of the colony ; and we are proposing to create a machinery by which the case of railways or that of immigrants may be met in every po?sible way. I suppose the hon. member would not insist that railways should only be constructed after the fashion of those in Canterbury. Under this Act, the House may say that the railway from Nelson to Cobden shall only be made, if it can be made, out of land, or that onefifth shall be paid in money and four-fifths in land. You may say in regard to Auckland and Otago, that lines may be constructed from Auckland to the Waikato, or from Oamaru to the Bluff, by a guarantee. You may under this measure authorise the Government to give a guarantee of £5000 a-mile, if you want a railway of that character. You may say that the Government shall give a lease for ninety-nine years to persons willing to construct the railway ; that the persons constructing the railway shall raise the money, and pay it over to the Government account in the bank ; that all payments shall be made by the Government ; that the traffic charges Bhall be fixed by the Government ; tbat the spe3d shall be of a certain rate ; and tbat the Government may take possession in case any one of these conditions has not been fulfilled. If the House give such authority, the Government can get a railway constructed in any part of the country where the traffic will warrant it. The House may give a guarantee only upon £2000 or £3000 a mile, if it considers that a light railway will be sufficient for the purpose. This bill, in fact, is so brought down that it leaves to the House the power of fixing, absolutely, the manner in which railways shall be constructed in the future, and bo great a latitude is allowed that it will be the fault of the House, of the Government, and of the country, if we do not, as circumstances may require, have railways from one end of New Zealand to the other. Those who recognise the manner in which the several measures of the Government have been trained; those who can at all appreciate the enormous amount of care which has been given to this bill; and those who can realise the great objects which the Government most sincerely and heartily detire to carry out, will understand what I mean when I say, during the last few days of this Parliament, let us think of the people, not of ourselves, not of parties 1 Let us forget all differences, and give to the country the future which this bill promises !