HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Timaru Herald, Volume XLII, Issue 3416, 8 September 1885, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Tho House met at 2.30 p.m. I nbw dill. 1 The Hon. Mr Kichardson introduced tli ' Bailways Authorisation Bill. '. THE FEDEBAL COTTXCIL. The Hon. Mr Stout moved—" That m th opinion of this House it is inadvisable for th ' colony to join the Federal Council of Austral ' aaia under the existing Federal Council Act. He said the House would recollect that las year he bad moved resolutions bearing upoi , the establishment of a Federal Council. H ■was desirous there should be some kind o ' federation more powerful than wa9 providei ' by the last Bill passed by the Convontiot He explained the provisions of the Fcdern : Bill when it went from the Convention to th Home Parliament. The Government ha represented to the Agent-General that i ' would be impracticable for this colony to joii ! the Federal Council unless some such pro ' visions as were asked by the Government wer . inserted m the Federal Council Bill. H might say that as the Federal Council Bi 1 did not contain the two provisions asked las 5 year, he thought it was not desirable to joi " under it. He felt convinced federotio 1 would have to be effected, but it should h 3 an English, Australian, and New Zenlan federation. If the old Provincial system ha " been retained, and the Government had bee 1 looked upon as a Federal and not a Colonii Government, he thought the colony of Ne< Zealand might have been an important ccnti with Fiji, Tonga, and other places also o provinces. It might bo that if New Sout Wales joined the federation, New Zealan might have at no distant date to also joii Two thin 's would have to bo accomplishe whether ft leration were nccompHshed or no One of thes was the question of defence. ] B was generaJy regarded by those mos i competent to judge that any propt Bystem of defence must bo of a t Australasian character, and ho though • this could not be better effected than b - come kind of convention. He contended the 1 all public opinions tended m the direction tht s the colonies must help themselves m tli 1 matter of defence, and that whatever b i done should be done promptly. The othc i question v?os [the Pacific Islands. Hoi t members would sco from recent account i what was being done by other Powers m th c direction. Ho thought if a Federal Counc s was established, and New Zealand left out c j it, the Imperial Government would take fs r more notice of the representations of tt l Federal Council m this respect than froi f New Zealand itself. He then referred t r come of the dangers which might arise froi i federation, which might probably result i ■1 tho Federal Council usurping too much pow< s to the injury of this colony. That was, ( li course, a danger that would have to t n guarded against. Ab to tho other resoli c tions on the Ordur Paper, ho tboug d it would he better that there shoul rbo one debate. If the Mombe; 1 for Port Chalmers and Wairarapa wei - willing this should bo done, ho thought would expedite business very material!; ) He did not intend speaking at length on tl i- question, as he had gone fully into tl d matter laat year. He might say why ho cor c sidered they should have some kind < i- federation, which would be of groat advai d toge to tho colony. He considered that ar ir kind of federation must havo tho sympath g that bad not yet come, but ho believed •c would come before many years were over, ar tho pcoplo of tho colony would short] n realise the advantages of it. y Mr Macandrew said ho would move h s, resolution as an addition to that of tl it Premier's. Ho said there was no one m tl d Houbb who moro fillly realised tho nccessit y of soino such confederation than ho did, ar c lie thought a suggestion of this kind won! ,f conio with a peculiar graco from a your colony like New Zealand. Ho thought if a wont no further thnn the adopting by tl o Home of such a resolution as that propose* ,f it would bo a great point gained, ond V r, hoped it would commend itself to tl if unanimous approval of the House It wi 's no new idea a« for as ho was concerned. B o had publicly advocated such a confederate 's for years past. Ho thought thoro was n it objection to such ft confederation boyond tli o reach of practical politics, and he msintainc a that an alliance or confederation, such it wj

al propojod was quite within their range. Ho c- thought if such a proposal were carried it out it would bo of immense importance >f to all concerned. It was Terr gratifyn ing to hear that the subject of confederation 5- was largely oecupjing the attention of tho :t Mother Country. Ho quoted from statistics it to prove tho English speaking people held a c large proportion of tbe face of the globe, and ir contended that m the matter of wealth, which d was generally regarded as one of the chief r, materials of war, Great Britain and Ireland if had nothing to fear from Russia. How much o less would this be the case if the Mother c Country wero (o confederate with the United i- States and tho wholo of the colonies. It y needed no argument to show that, hurmwlv I- speaking, anch a confederation would bo hill vincible. It would be the bulwark of liberty if oil over t'<e world. He then moved tho foly lowing addition to Mr Stout's resolution— c •' That m the opinion of this House the time o has come when efforts should be made to it unite the whole of tho English speaking o peoplo throughout the world m one grand political confederation alliance, having c for its objoct mutual defence against g foreign aggression, tho maintenance of pence i, and the promotion of the brotherhood of i- nations. That a respectful address be pree sented to His Excellency tho Governor, c requesting that he may be plenaed to transmit o this resolution to the Queen, m the hope that >f Her Majesty may still further distinguish >f her illustrious reign by endeavoring to bring y about a conference that shall represent the whole of the British dominions and the », United States of America, to meet either at >o London or Washington, to consider the question of a political Confederation as horeini- beforo mentioned." a Sir George Grey asked m what position is they wero. He said Mr MaeandroVs resolutions proposed to present a respectful n Address to tho Governor, and asked if the il previous resolution was also to go witli tho n Address. ir The Hon. Mr Stout said ho had suggested n Mr Mncandrew's resolution bo taken as an k addition, merely to save the time of tho cl House. g Major Atkinson asked tha Spoaker whether tho resolutions could afterwards be moved separately. ') The Speaker ruled the resolutions could be put separately. it Mr Beetham was willing to fall m with any 1, proposal that might bo made as to moving is his resolution. He was glad to hear the h Premier express tho opinion that some sort of if federation wus necessary. As he had already expressed his views on the subject he would simply move bis resolutions— (l) " That m 1, order to securo the permanent unity of the l, Empire some form of federation is essential ;" (2) " That no scheme of federation should interfere with the existing rights of local i- Parliaments as regards local affairs ;" (3) c " That any scheme of Imperial federation :a should combine, on an equitable basis, tho ir resources of the Empire for tho maintenance y of common interests, and adequately provide it for an organised defence of common rights " s, Major Atkinson said the position of tho c Premier was undoubtedly a very difficult one. The hon. gentleman had fully admittod tho necessity for federation, but ho had brought down a resolution which might postpone federation for a long time. Ho thought that it was quite clear that if they were to become members of a large community, they must bo prepared to submit to the regulations of a larger body. It seemed to him the Premier's speech was full of weighty facts m favor of federation, and he confessed he j saw no reason for tho dangers which the ,(. Premier feared from federation — namely, that the Federal Council would by its laws c swallow up smaller bodies. He thought there j could be no possible fear on that score. The j abolition of the provinces was not a coso m point at all. The reason for their abolition was that they never exercised their proper 8 functions at all, and wero continually coming Q to the House for enormous sums of money to carry on their works. The provinces were \ never intended to bo independent States. Q They were merely municipal bodies. He failed to see also how Now Zealand was to n become a powerful State by being cut up into four large provinces, and the suggestion of such a a federation as that with tiji and Samoa B would not m his opinion be a desirable ono. Besides, as tho Premier pointed out, there was a great danger that if New Zealand did not effect federation some other Powe* 4 would take possession of those Islands. It wus a certainty that New South Wales and Victoria c had their eyes upon those Islands, and would undoubtedly take some stcp9 m this direction unless federation was accomplished. It was c also their duty to co-operate m (he matter c of defence. 'Jibe colony waa very properly [. looking after its own defence, but it was to •> Great Britain they must chiefly look for proit teetion against a foreign foe, and t hey could n only secure this by federation. He looked c upon an Australian federation aa the if first step towards a general federation. (] The growth of Canada and Australia , was so vast that the Mother Country k l could not overlook thoso places m tho cose of c peace or war. He should have liked to have (j moved an amendment that the House was of it opinion New Zealand should join the Fed.ral n Council, but ho thought it was evident that ). members had not yet made up their minds m ■ c the matter. He hoped, however, tho Prole mier's motion would not be given effect to, 11 and ho wotdd ask the Government to accept it the following amendment — "That, m tho n opinion of this House, it is undesirable ,n during the present session, and pending } c further consideration by tho peoplo of tho (1 colony of the important issues involved, to d adopt legislation having for its object to join n New Zealand m tho Federal Council of il Australasia." w The Hon. Mr Stout said he would accept > c the amendment. is Mr Montgomery asked whether tho Premier ,h knew what defence by a fleet meant, or did J ho know the colony must be protected by a. eruisora, not by a fleet. They could not have d a fleet which would protect them against an t, enemy'a fleet. They must have cruisers, (t He entirely objected to Australasian federaat tion. Was it not a fact that federation meant ; r on uniform Customs duty and a common 'n purse? He did not see what was to bo gained it by federation. Beforo they went m for iy federation with the Pacific Islands they must it have a much more numerous population than it they possessed at present. Ho regretted the 10 Premier hod given way to the amendment of )0 tho Member for Egmont. ;r Mr Downio Stewart regarded this colony n- as somewhat committed by its action of last t 9 year. He saw m tho Federation Bill dangeri 9 ous tendencies which made him rejoice to see ij tlio Government hold its hand m tho matter of of federation. i r Mr Bolleston pointed out that it was not i e proposed to destroy the autonomy of any m colony. He sympathised \ery largely with 10 all that had been said by Mr Macandrew on m tho subject of Imperial federation. He mi n thought it was iminently a practical question. cr The result of peaco or war was of enormous D f importance to tho whole of tho civilised 30 world. Ho was somewhat disappointed they n. should not havo taken somo steps this session [,t towards securing federation witli tho AusId tralian colonies. rs The Hon. Mr Ballanco agreed with the Pc amendment of the Member for Egmont, as it it afforded them more time for consideration of y this important question. He thought thecxcol,o lent epeech of the Member for Port Chalmers )0 would have been moro ofTcctife if it hntl boon n. framed on different lines, as it seemed to him of to bo more m tho direction of federation with n . the world than with tho English pooplc. Ho ,y thought tho timo would como when tho ,y fedorntion of the world would bo effected, but it it would be a long timo yet. He considered id tho basis of population was tho only satisly factory basis of federation, and there was no douht that their voices would bo swompod ,i 8 by the voices of a larger body if they joined lethec the Federal Council. Was it to be Bnpposed ie that New Zealand could bo content with tho t T crude propoiols of the Federation Council K { Bill ? He thought their position should bo |j defined before taking a further stop m tho ,g direction of federation. One danger of the it fodcrutive system wns that onco tho colony lc had gone m, it could not with honor rotire d t from it. He held thoy wero not compelled to ,o join this federation, and thoy had nothing 10 to loso by not joining it. Ho thought at any M timo m future Australia would bo glad to acf 0 cent Now Zealand into any federative system. i,i With regard to defence nil they had to fear 10 was the protection of their harbors, and thoy , c wore taking steps to render that, protection us ,<j efficient as pojuble. Ib Mr Conoily was strongly m favor of

federation. He regretted the Premier had, iv moving his resolution, spoken m such a half-hearted manner of the advantages of federation, which he admitted would have to be effected. Ho was also disat pointed with the speech of the Membor for Egmont. Ho could not agree with the Minister for Lands that they should wait for a few years to see how the federation system worked. He thought it would be placing tho colony m a secondary position if they were to do so. He could not support the Premier's motion. Major Atkinson's amendment was then put and agreed to on the vpices. Mr Macandrow's amendment, and tho resolutions as a whole, were also agreed to on tho voices. The House rose at 5.30 p.m., and resumed at 7.30. IN COMMUTES. Tho Home went into Committee on tho Public Works Act Amendment (No. 2) Bill, and a long discussion ensued on a clause proposed by Mr Downio Stewart, for exempting the City of Dunedin from the operations of tho Act. It was finally lost on a division by 40 to 30. Several other amendments were proposed m tho Bill but were negativod, and tho Bill then passed without alteration with the exception of clau6o 15 being struck out. The Houso went into Committee on the Public Hevenuos Bill. Several amendments were proposed m tho Bill, which elicited lengthy discussion. BILLS PASSED. The Public Works Act Amendment Bill (No. 2) and tho Public Revenues Bill were reported from Committee, read a third time, and passed. THE SAN FBANOIBCO MAIL BKBVICE. Tho Hod. Sir Julius Yogel said he should like to state to tho House that to-day was tho last day for receiving tenders for the San Francisco mail Bervice, but no tenders had been received. An iiitimi-tion was received from a local Company, and also from tho representative of an American Company, that if the terms offered wore altored, probably they would be prepared to make an agreement. He was not disposed to think the Houso would entertain all tho terms offered. It was stated by the porson inclined to tender that tho servico proposed was such a quick one that a largo expenditure whb necescary m order to keep up time. He had therefore extended tho time of tendering till Wednesday noxt, and he had arranged that instead of an 18 or 19 days' service that 20 days should bo tho limit required. He should inform the Houso of the result of the first tenders called for. GOLD DUTY AEOLITIOX BILL. On the motion that tho Gold Duty Abolition Bill bo committed, Captain Slitter moved that tho Bill be committed that day six months. 3fr Seddon opposed this amendment, and quoted largely from returns to show the necessity for the abolition of gold duty on the West Coast. Mr Caduian opposed the abolition of the gold duty. He said if the Bill m its present shape passed, the Counties of Piako, Thames and other places would have a claim on the Government for about £4000 or £5000 a year. He acknowledged, if the Bill were passed, that it would not apply directly to tho North Island fields, as lie f'olt convinced tlie North Island did not want tho duty abolished. Tho Hon. Sir Julius Yogel said the duty as an export duty was ono that could not commond itself to lion, members, and ho thought now that the revenue was localised, | thcro would be no difficulty m collecting a royalty. It was not proposed that a royalty should be collected from persons working under miners' rights, but m the caso for instance of companies obtaining good results, he thought it was quite legitimate for the Crown to exact a royalty. He should not be m favor of the abolition of the gold luty unless they wove able to give local bodies the power to collect a royalty. He hoped the House would pass the Bill. Mr O'Couor said the debate on this question showed conclusively that the abolition of the gold duty would be most advantageous both for companies and private persons. He contended that they ought to assist tho miners, and by that means they would get a market for colonial produce. The motion for the second reading was lost on a division by 31 to 23. Mr Guinness asked if he could move an amendment that tho Bill be read that day The Speaker ruled that such an amendment would not bo m order, and Mr Guinness entered his protest against the motion juat affirmed by tho House. He attributed tho vote given to the unreasonable attitude taken up by the Member for Gladstone referring to matters, of which ho was utterly ignorant. The question that tho Bill be committed that day six montliß was then put, and carried by 35 to 33. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr Lanco moved — " That m the opinion of this House it is advisable that some steps should bo taken to stamp out the Bcab m sheep wherever it exists m the colony, and that a sufficient sum should bo voted for that purpose." He said that at the present time scab only existed m three or four isolated places m tho colony, and his reason for moving tho motion waa that ho harl thought the timo had eorao when there should bo some finality m the matter, and that scab should bo stamped out for evor. Ho had therefore determined to a*k tho House to iass a Bum of money to eradicate tho disease The sum he proposed to ask for was £3000 which he considered was not a largo sum for eradicating the great pest. Tho Ho:i. Sir Julius Yogel said tho Government intended bringing down upon the Supplementary Estimates, a sum of money for effecting tho purpose desired, us he thought it would bo better to hove tho disease stamped out than to contiouo it. Mr Lanco then withdrew his amendment. Mr Moss moved a further amendment : — "(_\) That retrenchment m the public expenditure is imperative ; (2) t'jat m order to effect this retrenchment it is desirable (a) to roduco materially tho numbor of members m both Houses of the Legislature, with a corresponding reduction m tho numbor of Ministers and m the departmental expenditure of tho colony, (b) to deviße a system of local Government simple and economical and flolf-depondont, capablo of relieving tho General Assembly of nil local works, and rendoring the present largo number of members unnecessary." Ho contended that retrenchment was absolutely essential m tho interests of tho colony, and spoko at somo length on tho necessity for some better system of looal sclf-govornment m ordjr to do away witli tho present expensive form of government. The Hon. the Promier agreed with what had been said m regard to reducing the number of memoers and expenditure, but it would be a difficult matter to rcduco tho number of members, as tho Houso would not bo sufficiently sol f -deny ing to do so, and many objections would bo raised against it. Local government would havo to bo strengthened before that could bo done. Ho hoped the member would not press his motion at this period of the session. Tho motion was negatived, und tho Houso went into Committeo of Supply. Vote : Logislatiro Department. Itomr Clerk of the Council, £600. Eeduced by £100. Item : Assistant Clerk, £100. Ecduccd by £50. Mr Fulton moved that the salary of tho Chairman of tho Public Pctitionß Committee (£100) bo Btruck out, and after somo discussion tho amendmont was negatived on tho voices. Mr Fulton moved that tho item £100 for tlio Chairman of tho Nativo Lands Committeo be struck out. — Lost by 34 to 2-t. Mr Fulton moved that tho item £100 for Chairman of Goldfields and Minus Committee be struck out. This vote olicitod a lengthy discussion, but was negatircd by 34 to 28. Mr G-. P. Richardson moved Unit the item £10l> for Chairman of Waste Lands Committeo be Btruck out. The Hon. Mr Bullanco defended this item and said that there were special reasons why tho item should ho retained, owing to tho largo amount of work that had to bo porformed by tho Chairman of that Committee. Tho item was retained on tho casting volo of the Chairman — ayes 26, noes 26. Mr W. V. Bucklu'nd inovod to roduco tlio item by £09. [Loft sitting.]