VICTORIA COLLEGE

Otago Witness, Issue 2429, 3 October 1900, Page 31

VICTORIA COLLEGE

The Hon. Mr REEVES moved that in the opinion of this Council, in view of the inability of the governors of Victoria College to obtain a suitable site for the institution in the City of Wellington, one should be procured in the City of Nelson, that locality being in every way more stiitable and convenient for students, and that the Government be requested to introduce a bill to amend clause 2 of " The Victoria College Act, 1897," with a view to striking out the word " Wellington " and inserting in lieu thereof tho word " Nelson." — After debate, the motion was carried by 21 votes to 13.

BILLS PASSED.

The Criminal Code Act, 1893, Amendment Bill was recommitted, and the interpretation clause amended. The bill was then passed.

The Testa tor's Family- Maintenance Rill wae read a third time and passed.

SHOPS AND OFFICES

The Council proceeded -with the Shops and Offices Bill in committee.

Clause 28 wps amended lo provide for offices nnd wholesale houses observing a half-holiday on Saturday, "pro\ided that whevo the occupier of any office has given notice under section 23, if he elects to close on the statutory closing day, the half-holiday shall be on that clay, anything in this section notwithstanding. OhuibC 28, subsection 5, was amended by 11 votes, to 10 i<> exempt assistants in hotels from the operation of the weekly half-holi-day, clauses. Assistants in eating houses and

restaurants, whether connected with a hotel or not, come within the meaning- of the clause. A new sub-ection was added providing that all assistants in hotel bars shall have one "halfholiday each week on such working day as the occupier may think fit.

On the motion of the Hon. Mr RIGG, a clause was> added prot iding that in the event of,another day than Saturday being appointed as the closing day by the local authority, any shopkeeper shall be entitled to close on Saturday in lieu thereof on giving- notice to the inspector of his desire so to do.

The bill was reported as amended.

The House of Representatives having passed the whole of the Estimates before rising on Wednesday morning, questions were replied to on meeting in the afternoon, and the Government Railways and Post Office Bills passed. In the evening the rebate on the second reading of the Private Industrial Schools Bill was commenced, and was proceeding at 2 o'clock this morning.

REPLIES TO QUESTIONS.

' Ministers replied to questions to the following effect : —

The Government will, as soon as possible, send the Government geologist to report as to the advisability of putting- down a prospecting bore for coal at Dobson.

As to the question of amending the Land Act, so that Crown tenants may reeei've milling timber on their beetions and not have to fell it to do their improvements 5 , it is competent fcr a settler to apply to the Land Board, and, if the circumstances warranted, they had power to authorise such reservation. The Pofcl Oflice Bill will contain provision to enable trustees to make deposits on behalf of beneficiaries in the Post Office Savings Bank.

The decline in the birth rate from 81 to 99 was not peculiar to this colony, but, according to statistics, was general in several parts of the world. Ministers have no theory to account for the decline, and liad no suggestion to make to combat the evil.

Ministers have every renaon to believe that the 11echuic.il Schools Bill will be passed this session, and it was propo&ed to place on the Public Works Estimates a sum for ihe purpose of buildings for such schools.

With regard to the question whether tlie Government would communicate with the Governments of the \arious dependencies of the Empire and the Secretary of State for ihe^Colonies with a view to the cntabliphment of an Imperial trade zollverein, the PREMIER replied that next session he would inhoduee a measure dealing with the subject which would be thoroughly approved of. Tho amount of claims under the Old-age Penpions Act this year would total £200,000, and in view of that fact, the pro23Osal to increase the pension to l(k could not be ademted. While the Premier believed that there was more danger to tho well-being of the yoiing of_ the colony from gambling than from drink, the Government could not introduce a. measure to suppress gambling this session, but hoped to deal with the evil next session.

GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS.

The Government Railways Bill was further considered in committee. v Clause 3 was amended, on the motion of Mr WARD, to the effect that all persons now in the service of the department, and who were in the service immediately before the 28th January, 1889, shall be in the same position with respect to their right to superannuation or compensation allowance a3 if subsection .3 of section 4- of "The Government Railways Act, 1894-,'' were not repealed.

The bill was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed.

POST OFFICE BILL.

The Post Office Bill was committed, reported with aniendmentSj^reacl a third time, and pa*set?.

PRIVATE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

The Right Hon. ,Mr SEDDON moved the second reading of the Private Industrial Schools Inspection and Industrial Schools Act Amendment Bill. He said he hoped the question, would be discussed in a calm and judicial spirit, and that due care would be taken lo conserve the interests of waifs and strays that had been committed into the care of the State. It should be borne in mind that the Roman Catholics of the coloiiy vrere mortified to an extreme extent at what had happened in connection with the Stoke School, and in anything that might bo _ said during the debate the traditions of the race for fair play should be exhibited, and nothing should be paid that would reflect upon iheir creed. No doubt the Government would be blamed for what had happened, and they were prepared to accept all due responsibility, but he hoged no blame would be attached to any officer who wos blameless. If wrong had been done, the law was to blame, jind everyone who had "been a member of the Hou?c for years should accept a share of the blame in connection with the manner in which the school had been conducted. It had been s+ated that the Hon. W. P. Reeves visited tho school in 1895, and thai, he had then reported that if certain irregularities which were alleged to exist were not remedied he would discontinue the sub-f-idy. He (Mr Seddon) cabled to Mr Reeves for information on that subject, as there was no record of his over having made such a statement. He received a cable in reply from Mr Reeves to the effect that ho had no recollection of having expressed any such dissatisfaction with the management of the Stoke School, and that the only suggestion that ho had made was that J:here was a tendency to keep the inmates in school too long-. As to the system cf in&pection which obtained, he asserted that since 1895 that had been much more efficient than during- any previous pei'io<l since the establishment of tho school in 1871, so that the Government, were not to blame in that respect. If anyone was io blame it was the Nelson Charitable Aid Board, who have tho school under its nose, and yet had permitted a state of things to continue that was now complained of. As lo the charges that had been made against the management oi the school, he asked tiie House to remember that similar charges had been made against. State industrial and primary schools, and that in the case of the latter the scandals had been hushed up. He cried shame upon the Charitable Aid Board for having allowed such a state of things to continue without having made an attempt to remedy them. As to the charge that -there had been tampering with the earnings of the inmates, he asserted that was impossible. He agreed, however, that wherever State money was given there should be State supervision and control, and in that respect it was intended that all private industrial schools should >conic under the bill. It should be borne in mind that Roman OalKolicf. had, for conscience sake, charged themselves with Ihe educating of their own children, at a saving to tho State of not less than £30,000 a year, and in Axe face of that fact it was paltry to object to an expenditure

of only £3000 a year on the Stoke Schoolj Thvre were 4GO inmates of Roman Cutholuj industrial schools in the colony. "What wwasa s to be done with the children if these schooly were closed. There -were only two courses open in dealing with these schools. One waa to continue them under a. proper system of inspection and control, and that there shoulcft be no foreign control. The other was that there should be no private industrial schools, and that inmates should be committed to State schools. In the latter case, he did not believe that there would be any improvement.' v Mr G. W. RUSSELL referred to the extraordinary arguments used by the Premier in support of the Stoke School. The inmate? of the Stoke' School, at any rate, liad seen very little of the bz-ight side of life, which hf said was characteristic of private industrial schools. As to the charge madfl by the Premier that Parliament itself wag to blame for the condition of the Stoke School* , he personally declined to accept any such reI sponsibility. The action of the Governments in connection with the affair all through ha<J been weak and vacilating, and if there had not been proper inspection of the school the Government were to blame, as the Inspectorgeneral's report to the Minister provedT He ' | did not dpfrire to raise the question of secI tarianism, neither would he refer to the name- | less crimes charged against some of the brothers. He defended the action of the Nelson Charitable Aid Board in connection with the inquiry, contending that, instead of censuring the members of that board, as the Premier had done, they had earned the gratitude of the j whole colony.

Mr PIRAINI complained of the Premier occupying 57 minutes in lauding the Roman Calr-oiics and besmirching the public schools, while he devoted ony three minutes to the bill itself. He was not surprised at the Premier's; attitude, as he was a denominationalisfc at heart. It was not his (Mr Pirani's) intention to criticise the management of the Stoke School, but the bill itself. He contended thai, the prosecution should have been made before the inquiry by the commission. He quoted from statistics showing, he contended, thatprivate industrial schools hjid been improperly used. In any alteration that might be made in industrial ccUools, he commended the cottage home system as producing the best results. Any threat en the part of the Piemier to flood the public schools with private in--dustriol school children should not deter the House from dealing with the question in a thorough manner. The Hon. Mr HALL-JONES commented upon the difficulty of getting proper controllers of industrial school?. The Government had been endeavouring to improve industrial schools, and ho believed that of all syttems the cottage home was the most suitable, and the Government were working in. the direction of establishing that system. He condemned the Nelson Charitable Aid Board tor their laxity of supervision over the Stoke School, and quoted from the reeoi-ded testimony of the official visitors four years ago, showing that the school was well conducted and the children well tended. The school had been open for inspection by anyone at ,all times and all hours.

Mr MEREDITH said the maladministration of the Stoke School was now a matterof public notoriety, and he considered that it was one of the greatest scandals that had everoccurred in the colony. He criticised the statment by Mr Hall-Jones that the moral conduct of the children in private industrial schools compared favourably with publics fd'ools, contending that he had made an unfortunate mistake, as he Mr Meredith) proceeded to show by quoting from statistics which proved that Roman Catholic children furnished a greater proportion of criminals than any other denomination. He characterised the Premier's speech in defence of the Stoke School as the most laboured he had ever heard the Premier deliver. Hp condemned the system of clerical interference in educational matters, citing vdiat had been done by Sir Wilfrid Laurier ia Canada, and King Victor, Emanuel in Italy, in regard to the undenominational system of education. He repudiated the Premier's attempt to saddle the blame on the House for what had occurred at the Stoke School. Personally, he had years ago drawn the Premier's attention to the necessity of better inspection of private industrial schools. The' speech of lh= Premier was that of a special pleader, and consisted principally of maudlin sentiment. The bill did not meet the ca;»e. It provided for a white- washing process, and was alto-p-ether unworthy of the Premier of the colony. Mr GRAHAM, as member for Nelson, said he might have refrained from speaking oit the subject but for the manner and some of the n.atter of the Premier's speech. Be objected, also to the Premier's attack upon the Nelsoa Charitable Aid Board, which was composed of men, some of whom were amongst thestiongest supporters of the Government. As a matter of fact, these men did not fenow that they had any right to inspect or visit the school. He had broxight the matter under the notice of the Minister of Education, urging an inquiry and an extension of time over the period into which tbe inquiry should be held. He asserted that the Government had not been aware of tlic inten&e disgust in the minds of the people of Nelson who were best acquainted with the fact regarding the management at the school al the apathy of the Government on the matter. The feeling in Nelson was that nothing «hort of the State taking over the control of the school would prove satisfactory. He denied thai the p r eople of Nelson were to blame. There had, he said, been lack of control and inspection on the part of - Government officers. The bill before the House would not afford adequate remedy for the slate of affairs prevailing in the school, and he would in committee endeavour to so mould it that it would effect all that was desired. Mr WILFORD-tontended that the so-called homes for motherless children required inspection as imic'i as private industrial schools. If the bill effected any change for the betier in the management of ■ private industrial schools it would meet with his support. Mr J. HUTCHESON condemned the attitude of the Premier in regard to what^he characterised ?<s the advocacy of denominationali^m. He asserted that it was impossible for any person Jo approach the school without the management being apprised of an intended visit. The whole action of the Premier in connection witl the matter had. been to shield the management of the school, and the poor wishy-washy thing of a bill was introduced with a view to effect a reform which its provisions were incapable of effecting. He produced chains which \s ere a duplicate of those /vith which some inmates had been fastened, as showing the punishment inflicted.

Mr COLLINS contended that the Premier could not plead ignorance as to the state of the school, as his attention had at different times been called to the matter. The bill, ha baid, would not effect the reforms- that wera necessary to prevent a repetition of what hart occurred. He would supnort the fecond veacing of the bill, but would endea\our to bringthe whole of the private industrial schools, under the control of the State.

Mr ATKINSON regretted the tone with which the Premier opened the debate, and condemned his attack upon members 01 the Nelson Charitable Aid Board, whicn he gaid was entirely uncalled for. He strongly condemned the system of inspection and treatment of inmate?. . Air LEWIS said his intention was to abolish private institutions, and vote for Government control and for provision being made by which children would receive religious training 111 the belief of their parents. Mr T. MACKENZIE condemned the punishments inflicted upon inmates as being enough to rouse the indignation of everyone. The Hon. W. J. STEWARD believed more Echools should be under State inspection ; still, he would not deny to some private institutions the right lo manage their schools simply because a case had been made out against the Stoke School. , The Hon. Mr WARD said he deprecated any attempt to ill-treat children, no matter to what sect or class they belonged. At the eamo time, it was not a fair or generous thing for any member to say anything that wouicl be likely io prejudice the case of the Brothers committed for trial- It had been asserted that representations had been made to him to cover up what had transpired in connection with the Echool, but he took that opportunity of saying there was not the slightest foundation for the statement, and he pointed L o tno fact that when asked to extend the scope oi the inquiry from two to five years he reacluy assented. Because one or two men had been guilty of conduct warranting pumrhment,-he did not think the whole commtn -.xy should Buffer for their misdeeds. He wf rore all deeply deplored what had happened m connection with the school, but he did not think the charges levelled against the administration in connection therewith were justified. It was easy to be wise after the event. -They should take a lesson by the past, ana so frame their legislation as lo prevent a repetition ot such mismanagement. „ Mr ELL thought it was not so mucn that the law required alteration as that more humanity should be imported into the management of industrial schools. • The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON, m reply, said the debate, in his opinion, had not tended to elevate the HouEe in the opinion of the country— at any rate, as far as some members were concerned, whose sole object had been to bring the administration into disrepute in connection with the matter. The limit of two years over which the inquiry should be held was .fixed by the Government in the first instance, because they were told that period would suffice, and when an extended, period ■wad asked foe they at ones agreed to five years. When popular clamour ran high and sectarian feeling was aroused, that was the time for strong men to see that justice was done to the minority. That was ths policy that ever actuated him in public life, and, whatever the consequences might be, he would continue to so act. The question was not a party one, and he deprecated such an important FubiecL being fo treated. -The motion for the Eecond reading was carried by 1-0 to 4. The SPEAKER complimented members en the fact that, although the debate_ was on a very serious subject, and one in which a great deal of heat might have been engendered, he had not ones been called on to check members.

IMPERIAL ZOLLVEREIN.

"To-day Mr T. Mackenzie asked the Premier if he would at the earliest possible date open communication with ihe Governments of the various dependencies of the Empire, and also with" the Secretary of State for the Colonies, with, a view to promoting an Imperial trade zollverein. Mr M&okenzie in. 0 few words urged the importance of the idea, which was favoured by the leading statesmen of Great Britain and Canada. The Premier, in reply, eaid that the matter was of the greatest importance, and would be of advantage to the Empire ifself. That we should do something in this direction was apparent, and he could not understand why there should be so much delay. ' Large subjects like these did not receive sufficient attention from Parliament. We are, he added, talking and fighting over tinpot affairs, while great questions like these are left untouched.