THE ESTIMATES.

Otago Witness, Issue 2429, 3 October 1900, Page 31

THE ESTIMATES.

,The House went into committee on the General Estimates. •The following passed without amendment: Class 17, Valuation department, £21,470; class 18, rates on Crown lauds, £1075 ; class 19, New Zealand . Sjtate forests, £6295.— 1n regard to the latter, the PREMIER &aid it was the intention of the Government to devote attention to preserving and renewing forests. Unless that were done a great injury would be done to the colony. He said that lie hoped before the House met next se^ion to have prisoners at work planting trees on some of the plains in the North Island. He thought it would prove- of much greater advantage to the Sta;e and to the prisoners that they should be so employed, instead of spending their time in much less advantageous work near cities. It was his intention to make the State Forest department a real live one, so that a futuie generation could not reproach the present Parliament for neglecting such an important matter. — A discussion took place on the subject of the wanton destruction of timber by settlers and through fires, and Ministers were urged to deter as far as possible the useless destruction of forest country. — Mr SYMES considered the Government was itself the greatest pinner in the matter of the useless destruction of trees. — The Hon. T. DUNCAN said it was his intention during the rocess to devote considerable attention to the conservation of State forests and the encouragement of trea-planl-ing generally. — Mr BUDDO said so long as the price of produce and timber remained at ihe present rates any attempts to induce settlers to plant trees would be futile.

Land for settlement (£7300). Public Trust Office (£20,700), Government Insurance department (£s*2o), Government Accident Insurance (5S100), Government advances to settlers (367,331) all passed unaltered.

Lauds and survey, £140,659. — The item £100, purchase of grass --ecd for Crown lands and settlers— Mr T. MACKENZIE complained that filthy instead of good and pure sesd had been soAvn on Crown land*. — Mr M"NAB f-aid in his district the seeds sown had developed the finest wimple of foreign weeds in the colony.— Messrs LISTHBIIIDGE and PIRANI said their experience wap that the seed in their district was jmre and gocd. Item £4-13, amount embezzled by a temporary clerk.— Mr J. HUTCHESON thought it unfair that permanent member-s of the seivice should be liable to be called upon to make good the defalcations of a temporary clerk, and explained that an imprest was not given to a temporary clerk, but to a superior officer^ who was responsible for the money. — Mr PIRANI condemned the loose system of the audit of imprest moneys that prevailed in the public service, and urged that a system of monthly balances should be reverted to.— The PREMIER raid it was impossible to carry out a monthly audit in connection with imprests where the co-operative system was being carried out. Large sums in cath had to be issued to officers to pay the men. However, considering' the large sums passing through the hands of public officers, the losses by defalcations were very small, and showed that the service as a. body were extremely honest.— The Hon. T. DUNCAN explained that the defalcations of temporary clerks were not made a charge upon permanent officers, and that svas why the sum appeared on the Estimates.— Mr SEDDON said that the total defalcations in the public service during the past five years had been exceedingly small. The alternative to the present system was the fidelity guarantee, but on the whole he thought the former was most advantageous. — The vote passed without alteration.

Education £541,188, which was postponed on account of the cases lately before the court in respect to the Stoke Industrial School.— Mr MEREDITH protested against going on ■with the vote in view of the promise by the Minister that before the education vote passed the House would be given an opportunity of discussing the Stoke School question. — Mr J. HUTOHESON insisted that the bill dealing with industrial schools should be brought down before th 6 vote was considered. — Tho

Hon. Mr HALL-JONES saw no reason why the Industrial Schools Bill should not be brought down this week. — Mr G. W. RUSSELL saw no object in forcing the education vote through until the future of private industrial, schools was settled. — Mr SEDDON said the amount on the Estimates for salaries for officers of the department had nothing to do with the Stoke inquiry. It was not the individual, but the office, that had to be paid for, and the salaries would have to be passed. If it was intended to blome the Gpvernmenfc for want of inspection in connection with the Stoke Industrial School, he would reply that the head of the department had only recently been appointed to the position. He liad promised to go on with the bill to-morrow, and he would carry out that promise. He wou'd only ask members to say notbing during the -discussion of thfe bill that would prejudice the cases of those committed for trial. As to the proposal to do away entirely with private industrial schools, he did not think that became there had been malpractice* in connection with the Stoke School the whole of these schools should be condemned. He asserted that all the charges that had beeii brought against the Stoke School had from time to time bean brought against, and proved a,gainst, public schools, and were they on that account to be done away with. — Mr COLLINS contended that the officers of the department had been guilty of criminal neglect in omitting to pi-o-perly inspeeb such schools. He urged also that better provision should be made for the inmate 3of the deaf and dumb institution at CJrristchurch.— Mr SEDDON objected to any reflection being cast upon the late Inspectorgeneral of School? who, he asserted, had gaca-ifice<l himself to his work. — Mr fTRANI blamed the Inspector-general of Schools for not taking steps earlier as to the charge* that had been made against the management of tho Stoke School. As to that school, a report was made in 1885 by the then Minister of Education, which was more condemnatory than the recent report of the Royal Commission. — Mr ELL reprobated the statement of the Premier that if tho vote was postponed it would reflect upon the position of every occupant of tho Treasury benches. That was one of the &tronq;csl arrjutiionts in favour of ai: E'ective Executive Eili— Mr L AURE.VSON i-aw no reason why the vote should not be put through in view of the Premier's statement that the bill dealing with industrial schools would be brought down the following- day. lie condemned the low rate cf pay allowed to teachers, stating that the service was oO poorly paid that men of ability would not remain in what was really the most important service in the colony.— Mr HALL-JONES said that as far as the fire e -capes at the school for deaf and dumb at Simmer were concerned they were quite adequate. Then as to private industrial schools, if the vote was disallowed provision would have to be made elsewhere for the accommodation of the inmates of the schools.— Mr T. MACKENZIE said it, was impossible to discuss the Stoke Industrial School in coiinpction with the education vote.— Mr J. HUTCHESON had rio faith in Ministerial promises in connection with the Stoke School. Ho asserted that so long 1 as Nature would sustain him lie would oppose the State abrogating its functions and delegating Ii s control of industrial pchoois lo sectional clashes of the con munity. — Air MEREDITH complained that 1 although the Minister of Education had been in office over four yea#s he had not visited the Stoke Industrial School. He quoted from the act of 1895, which provided that any person confining an inmate in a solitary place or putting them upon a bread -pud- water diet for more than 21 hours was liable to a penally not lesb than .85, or more than £50.

Mr J. RUTCIIESON said it was no use the Premier asking what was to be clone with the children in private industrial &chcols if schools were closed, when he must know tho schools could be taken over under the Public Works Act. He urged that the vote for private industrial schools be postponed until after the bill dealing with these-in&titutions was con sidered.

Mr SEDDON said the Government would not make the question a party one, but, of course, if the Government* were attacked in connection with the matter ii would have to defend itself. Pacing the Estimates would in no way prejudice Hie bill, and he would do his best to pass a measure that would deal effectively with the qxiestion. Mr ELL moved that the Inspector-general's salary (£600) be reduced £1, as an indication that private industrial schools are not satisfactory.

At .5.55 a.m. Mr PIRANT moved to report progress.— Lost by 26 to 20. Mr Ell's motion to reduce the vote by £1 was lost on the \ oic°=:.

Item, railway lares of school children. £5300.

Mr J. HUTCHESON contended it was an evasion of the spirit ot liie act that children should be carried free on the railway beyond the station at which there wps a State school. He moved to reduce the vove by £1, as a maik of disapproval of the system.- — Lost by 31 to 7.

Item, £3400, maintenance of children in private industrial school?.

Mr MEREDITH moved that the item be re cluced £5, as an indication that the grant to these schools should cease at the end of the year.— Lost by 27 to 11. The total vote passed, without alteration, completing the General Estimates.

Progress was reported, and the House rose at 6,15 a.m.

NATIVE LAND BILL,

The Government Native Lands Control and Administration Bill has at last been circulated. In dealing with this difficult question the Government have departed from the measure brought in last year, and have gone back to the bill of 1898, with a few amendments. It provides for the establishment of districts and the setting up of Native Land Boards. The constitution of the board is somewhat different to that proposed in the bill of 1898. The boards are to consist of two Europeans (one of whom shall be presidenc, to be appointed by the Governor), and two Natives, to be elected by the Native owners. The election of Block Committees to confer with and advise the board regarding- matters connected with the block is also provided for. All native lands are lo be vested in the boards, which are gh en pow er to leaps and otherwise administer such lands ; but no native land vested in these boards shall be sold, though provision is made for the completion of dealings ponding. Power is given to take native land for public purpo.-e.«, and in respect of all lands vested in it the board may exercise all the powers now possessed by the Native Land Court as to ascertainment of ownership, partition, succession, tho definition of relative interests, and the appointment of trustees ; provided thai the board shall not exercise its power;? in any matter under this section, unless directed so to do by the chief judge of the Native Land Court. The Minister is empowered lo make advane.es to tho board for constructing roads and making- srurveys.

STOKE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL,

Mr Seddon, at a late hour, dibcussing the question of whether matters relating to the recent di»clo<>ure3 in connection with tlie Stoke Industrial School should be gone into on the Education Estimated, said that in connection with some of the Government Industrial Schools every offence had been committed and proved that they had against the Stoke School to-day. — (Hon. Members: " Nonsense." Mr J. Hutche^on : " Did you ever have any of the inmates with chains on their legs in out- schools? " Air Pirani drew attention to a trenchant report on this same «chool in 1885, before the Marist Brothers took charge of it.

THE WAIKAKAHI ESTATE.

The Hon. Major Steward is moving for a return showing the particulars of the amount of loading (said to be £9519) which has been added to the purchase price of the Waikakahi estate for the purposes of valuation for taxation.

A BOMBSHELL,

Mr Russell threw a bombshell into the Ministerial camp this afternoon by giving notice to ask tho Premier whether the Government pcopObe to vindicate the law by prosecuting under section 9of The Industrial Schools Act Amendment Act. 1895,'' the manager of the Stoke Industrial School. The section of the act referred to, states that it shall not be lawful for the manager of or any person in authority or employed by any industrial school to confine any inmate in any dark room for any offenco; also, that no Inmate shall be placed on bread and water diet for longer thsn 24- hours. A.ny manager or other person who shall be guilty of a breach of thi 3 pro-\ i&ion shall, on coiiviction thereof, be liable to a ppualty of not less than £5 and not exceeding £50. Few, if any, of ths Ministry deemed to be aware ol this provision in the law, and when Mr Russell gave notice of hio question Mr Hall-Jones, who ib in charge of the Education Estimates, at once left the House, and was afterwards seen to be in close conversation with the In.-pector-gene-ral of School*. Membeis are now asking if this provision was inserted in the amended ace in consequence of Mr Recvteh's visit to the Stoke Industrial School.

THE SHOPS BILL.

The Auckland members have decided to oppose the cause in the Shops Act which takes away the option of a district to select either Wednesday or Saturday as ihe weekly r-alf-holidav. They desire that the existing law should continue in force as regards this matter. Auckland , shopkeepers have made strong representations to that effect. The Auckland members intend to ask the Premier j,o strike out tbe clause referred to. If Mr Saddon does not agree to this course they will do all they can to have the clause struck out in committee.

ABOUT GUM TREES.

Mr Thompson (Martden) says the ordinary bluegnm trees so largely planted in New Zealand" will be of little value as timber. He advocates the planting of other varieties, such as ironbark and" stringybark, the timber of which in years to come woold be very valuable. He believed such trees would grow very well in various parts of New Zealand. Mr Seddon advocated that prison labour fhould be used for planting trees on waste lauds. There were miles of country on the Napier-Taupo road that might be so planted, but tho moment ymi took the ; prisoners away from working about roads and forts near the to-n up there was an outcry. Ths prisoners would lie much betier employed in this work. Mr T. Mackenzie: "Then why don't you do it? You can carry anything."' Mr Seddon: "Very well; before I mesl you rfgaui, if my health and strength permit, I hope to have done something in that direction."- — (Hear, hear, and applause.) Mr T. Mackenzie: "I shall support you in {-hat.'' One or two hon. members interjected that the prisoners would have no votes. — (Laughter.)

JOTTINGS.

The Petitions Commilfee recommend that P. A. Connolly, of H.yde, be paid an additional £60 as compensation.

The Railways Committee report on the petition of James Neilsou and others, of Fern Hill, for the remission of 4-gd per ton clirrged on. the branch railway from die Fernhill coal mine to the Main Trunk line a' Abbolsford. They recommend the matter for the conconsideration of the Government.

Mr Cai'iicrossi has prc.-ented a xietition from settlers in the Taieri regarding a second line of railway between Dunedin and Mosgiel. The petition is fro in settlers on the sea beach of the Taieri and Bruce electorate's, and they nrgc lhat it will be better to make a line from Dunpdin, "ua Brighton and Taiori Mouth, to Milton.

_ Mr Thomas Mackenzie presented a petition asking that Eyeburn Diggings and Naseby be connected by telephone. Mr W. S. Reid, tiie retiring Solicitorgeneral, will be granted a pension of £500 a year as from November 1 next.