RAILWAY AFFAIRS.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XCVIII, Issue 11367, 7 September 1897, Page 6

RAILWAY AFFAIRS.

THE MINISTER AND THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. The Hon A. .1. Cad man, Minister of Railways, mot the committee of the Chamber of Commerce at the Cathedral Square offices at 2.30 yesterday afternoon, with reference to questions of railway extension, fares, rates and timetables. There were present—Messrs E. W. Roper (president), A. Kaye, W. Reece, A. Scott and W. D. Meares. , „ , ' In reply to the President, Mr Cadmau said that he was leaving Christchurch by the four o’clock train that afternoon. Mr E. W. Roper said that as Mr Cadman’s time was limited it would perhaps be better to discuss the subjects for which they had met in a conversational way. The question of railway reform had been very urgent here for some time, and the Chamber thought that if the matters at issue were put before the Government in a reasonable way,. they would be attended to. The three chief subjects which he would bring under Mr Cadman’s notice were: (1) Increase of speed, (2) reduction of rates, and (3) extension of lines. On the Lyttelton line, for instance, the distance was 7 miles, and the time taken was 25 minutes, so the speed attained was at the rate of 17 miles an hour. _ If a fast passenger train were run morning and night, it would greatly further the interests of business men and others. The first class faro on this line was Is Id, and the second class lid. The rates on the AucklandOnehunga line, a distance of 8 miles, Is first, and yd second, gave passengers an advantage of 50 per cent first class, and 40 per cent second class over passengers on the Lyttelton line. Yet the number of tickets issued on the Lyttelton line last year was 06,381, as against 10,841 on the bnehunga line, and it was obvious that the greater the number of passengers carried the less the rates might be with profit. Mr A. Kaye added that, being a frequent traveller on the Lyttelton line, he had observed that few people joined the train at side stations, and consequently the large percentage were through passengers. Mr Roper said that an argument had been used that if the speed of trains was increased only twenty-five per cent of the total time occupied on the journey would be saved. This was, to his mind, the strongest possible argument in favour of a higherrate of speed. He further pointed out, in reference to the Springfield section) that although this was one' of our main tourist Tines the carriages were, very inferior. The tourists -were the best people to advertise our country in other parts of the 'world, and therefore, from a business point of view, it was advisable to attend to their comfort. The rate of speed on the Springfield line—l3l miles per hour—was altogether too slow for a business, people. Mr Cadraan having lately travelled over the line himself must doubtless have observed this fact. Mr Roper advocated the separation of goods a.nd passenger trains, .and suggested a fast passenger train up and down on coach days. He further pointed out that the rate of speed attained on the Timaru-Faii-lie line was 181 miles per hour, as compared -with 131 miles on the Springfield line. The elevation of Fairlie was 386 ft above the sea level, which was very near the height of Springfield (1250 ft) as far as running was concerned. Taking again tho Sonthbridge line, it took two hours and twenty-five minutes to travel the 31 miles, which gave a rate of 121 miles per hour. Many people found it more convenient to travel by coach. He submitted that this slow rate of speed was as damaging to the business of the Railway Department as it was inconvenient to tho public. On the Culverdon line, which was sixty-nino miles long, the train took 43hours, which gave a through rate of 141miies per hour. This line led to the Hot Springs at the Hammer Plains, and was much used by tourists and invalids, and to many of the latter it would be positively dangerous to have their travelling delayed. .As the Government were doing their best to open up this district ho thought this point might well receive consideration. The speed on tho AucklandRofcorna line was 17 miles per hour, and the Culverdon line did hot present the same difficulties in the way of travelling. He strongly urged that passengers ou the Cr.lvcrden line should be put on at least a level footing with those on the AucklandEotorua line as regarded rate of speed. Again, it took the train twenty-five minutes less to rim from Wellington to Masterton (three miles further) than it did from Christchurch to Onlverden, and yet the former line included the Fell incline of 1144 ft. He contended that'a higher rate of speed would at once add to the public comfort, and cause a material increase to the railway receipts.

Mr W. D. Meares bad observed the rate of speed on the Springfield line. It was terribly slow, and the accommodation bad. Without knowing the extent of the goods traffic, ho thought the main difficulty this train had to contend with was the tilling in of time at the stations. The possibility of having one goods train up and down each day, and a daily jiassenger train at a reasonable speed each way would be a matter for departmental inquiry. The fact that there were light rails on that line had been used as an argument against speed, but he did not think that argument applied either to the pace already used or to the stoppages at stations. The up-hill grade only affected the pace one way, and he thought the rate of speed might well be accelerated coming down. The Department might, at any rate, arrange for fast trains on coach days. "With regard to the question of mails, these were now delivered later in the day than when they were carried by coach from Christchurch to Hokitika. With the railway from Christchurch to Springfield, and from Greymouth to Jackson’s, one would hardly expect to find the state of things which now existed,

Mr W. Reece thought that most of the ground had been covered by the previous speakers. As most of those present had seen railways run in other parts of the world, their experience was not wholly confined to New Zealand. Tourists and travellers who visited Hanmer Plains, and the natural scenery of the West Coast, might have some better travelling advantages than they n*pv possessed. In other parts of the world previously slow-going trains running to scenic resorts had been converted into paying affairs. Mr A. Scott referred to the hardships which the country people in the Southbridge district suffered in consequence of the present rate of railway speed. The difficulty might be met by a fast passenger train in and out daily, and if this were arranged it, would give them at least two hours longer at home, which they could occupy profitably. The country people were under the impression that the passenger timetable had been drawn out to meet the requirements of the grain season, and had continued unaltered during the whole year. The Hon A. J. Cadman said that the question was entirely one of £ s. d, If supplied with sufficient money he ,could carry out all the improvements The officers of -his' Department’had reported that fast traffic on light lines would be unsafe, unless these were re-laid with heavier rails, and he could not take the responsibility of disregarding their advice. Rotorua and other lines had been relaid with heavier rails, and this was necessary before speed could be materially increased. If the lines belonged to him, and he were in a position to do so, he would expend .£200,000 in equipment, and begin the work to-morrow. This meant borrowing, and if all the Canterbury members liked to borrow, well and good. They must either have things as they were or else spend money on them. The railways were short of engines, carriages and trucks, and if these jyerojiot found by next yean the

lines could not do the work. He would tell them this first. But he would also tell them plainly that these things could not he done out of revenue. Mr Roper pointed out that the fact of a train stopping at a station would not wreck the train. He was not referring to the Lyttelton line, which was a perfect one. A higher speed might bo obtained by separating goods trains from passenger trains. Mr Cadman said that might mean another train a day, arid .£IO,OOO was nowhere with another train or two. Three quarters of a million was already expended every year in that direction. The deputation doubtless looked at things from a Canterbury point of view, and they were right in doing so, hut he had to consider every part of New Zealand. The railways already required £150,000 for new trucks alone, besides which new locomotives and more carriages were much wanted. He had complaints of shortness of running stock from all parts of New Zealand. Mr Meares said that the railway returns did not indicate such a large increase in the traffic as Mr Cadman had pointed out. He thought that Mr Cadman had mentioned a.rather large sum for renewals. " - Mr Cadman said that he had not been referring to renewals, but to new stock, which was'urgently required. _ He considered the term renewals applied to the renovation and maintenance of old stock, and be would not apply the term to the purchase of new stock. Mr Means said that, with regard to the question of running an extra train, the committee had indicated no extra train on the Springfield or Southhridge lines. One passenger and one goods train each way once a day would satisfy them. What they mainly wished to avoid was the loss of time at stations. He thought the arrangements asked for could easily be made, especially the train to Springfield on coach days.

Mi- Cadman said that he was continually receiving applications in an opposite direction.

Mr Ecper pointed out that delay at stations was what the committee wished to do away with. Mr Cadman said that the only stoppage of any duration he had noticed when coming from . Springfield ‘ occurred at Eolleston. ' .. In reply to Mr Eoper, Mr Cadman said that the rails on the Springfield line were not heavy enough for fast traffic, and that if such were resorted to he considered there would be more danger on a falling grade than on a rising one. Mr A. Kaye remarked that the timetable was made for the busy season rather than for the convenience of passengers. He suggested the use of two time-tables, one for the busy season, the other for the slacker months of the year. However, none of the remarks made were applicable to the Lyttelton line. He instanced the .Great Western Eailway in England, which, by increased pace and travelling facilities, had, though at first a losing venture, become one of the most -paying lines in England. Mr Cadman said he could do all that, if he had the money.

Mr Eoper said that a commercial traveller’s annual railway ticket used to cost JBSO for the whole of New Zealand, and now the charge was increased to £l6O. They did not complain so much about this, as travellers generally only used one section. Wha.t they did* complain of was the difference in the price of these tickets in the North and South Islands. A traveller’s ticket in the North Island cost £235, in the South Island =£so. They would he satisfied if they were both charged at the same rate. Taking the Waitaki Eiver as a dividing line they were prepared to pay .£35 for fne right to' travel on lines north of that river; and =£3s for a similar right over the lines south of that boundary. They did not think it fair that they should pay £350 here as against £235 in the North Island.

Mr Cadman said that the only mistake they had made in this matter lay in reducing the rates at all. lie did not believe in sectional tickets, and would not countenance them, as they would give commercial travellers too great an advantage over the general public. Besides, in the North Island the tickets on the Manawatn line had to be bought, and were thus an extra cost.

In reply to a further question from Mr Roper, Mr Cadman said that he had to deal with the privilege of mileage, and not with the distance travelled by the ticket-holder. Mr Roper said that the mercantile community here f olt strongly the injustice of making merchant® in the South Island pay more for their tickets than those in the North Island.

Mr Meares. in referring to the East and West Coast Railway, said that thev had learned that the portions of that lino already constructed had been paid for by the Midland Railway Company. He wanted to know if there was any reason why all the work was being carried out at Nelson and Jackson’s and none on this side of the range.

Mr Cadman replied that he only took over lines when completed, and had nothing to do with the question of construction. But he did think that on a portion of the West Coast Road, near Kelly’s Creek, the line outside the road might be gone on with, and so protect the road, which was m constant danger of being washed away.

Mr Meares wished to know if there was any reason why the work could not be carried on at the Springfield end.

Mr Cadman said that when the Government won the lawsuit, they did not intend to spend a lot of money until they saw what the company was going to do. He, with other Ministers, was surprised when the company paid up. When Mr Seddon returned, they would doubtless know more about it, and whether the company or the Government would continue,the.wqrk. •

In reply to Mr Roper, IDh'Cfidjfian',said that the pushing on; , of otheawise,: of thie West Coast Railway depended entirely: on; Parliament. 1 He.did not; profess’to know the exact probabilities',of the matter. .■. • ; Mr Roper remarked that theo. people ■ of Westland and Canterbury .woro anxious that their districts'/should be joined, and he pointed out that a large amount of traffic was likely to result. The people of Canterbury were also anxious to see the completion of the main trunk line.

Mr Cadman said that, in casually passing over the road, he was unable to see where the traffic between Springfield and Jackson’s would come from.

Mr Roper observed that the same remark had been made regarding Christchurch and Lyttelton in the early days, and he contended that the existing state of things gave no indication of the probable through traffic. When we considered that all but some fifty-five miles of the line had already been completed, it was surely, wrong to allow the money spent to remain unproductive. Mr Cadman said that he could not enter into that question. Mr A. Kaye asked if any improvement could he made in the working of the import shed. He pointed out that the importers of Christchurch suffered great loss and inconvenience through the improper handling of goods, and. the inefficient system under which the shed was worked.

Mr Cadman said he would be pleased to obtain any information bearing upon the subject. He pointed out that the existing lack. of accommodation necessarily made the shed very difficult to work. Mr W. Eeece endorsed Mr Kaye’s remarks. He thought that want of sufficient shed accommodation, shortage of trucks, bad arrangement, and want of system generally, accounted for the existing state of things. Owing to want of room, goods were piled on top of each other, so that at times it was almost impossible to get them out for three weeks. Mr Kaye blamed the system. Formerly they could get their goods much more easily. He did not blame the men themselves, for they always seemed willing, but he blamed the system. Mr Koper, on behalf of the Chamber of Commerce, thanked Mr Cadman for his courtesy in granting them the, interview. Mr Cadman then said that he could not promise to remedy all defects at once, but would try and tackle them one by one. The interview then terminated at 3.30.