A CAUCUS PARLIAMENT.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume XXIX, Issue 7816, 8 June 1909, Page 4

A CAUCUS PARLIAMENT.

DEFENCE CONFERENCE AND THE PREMIER.

Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, June 7. Ail informal meeting of members of Parliament to consider the representation of the Government at the Imperial Naval Conference, and whether Parliament should adjourn so as to enable the Premier to attend, opened at 3 o'clock. Every seat m the House and the gallery was occupied by members of both Houses. Having stated that they would not ask for the appointment of a chairman, but would prefer the Premier himself to preside, Sir Joseph Ward, explained that he had called the members together m the only way possible. Under the circumstances members of the Upper House had been invited to be present, not to take part m the general discussion, but" to bear what had to be said, and then they could consider the matter separately. Until a decision had been arrived at, as to the adjournment of the session it would be impossible to inform the British Government whether the dominion would be I represented at the Conference. He was glad to see Mr _ Massey present, as he was always desirous to recognise the position of the Leader of the Opposition. Realising that he could only act with the general co-operation of ! members, he felt that it was better that t he should come before them, and make a general statement, and be guided by the general sense of the members assembled. He explained that if the representation of New Zealand was to be by the Premier and Parliament was to adjourn, the necessary steps would be taken to get an extension of supplies, and the Speech from the Throne would be a short one. If the House decided that the Government was not to be represented then. His Excellency would have to be advised differently. If the invitation was refused the Government would lay itself open to a charge of indifference, for the conference was an epoch making one. Mr T. E. Taylor asked how it was that the Commonwealth had accepted the invitation without taking the conrse Sir Joseph Ward had adopted. Sir Joseph Ward said he would answer any questions later. Continuing, he said that the time had arrived for Parliament to say whether it would uphold the otfer of a Dreadnought or two Dreadnoughts to the British Government, and he would ask Parliament to say "aye" or "nay" ; also to say whether the dominion should be represented at the conference. He intimated that a despatch, which was expected to hand, had not reached His> Excellency as, apparently, the Home Government was awaiting the result of this conference. The Premier then read voluminious correspondence, which had passed respecting the Dreadnought offer, and various despatches between the British and New Zealand Governments, the substance of all of which has already been published. He estimated that the necessary: loan would be raised at 3 per cent, which, with 1 per cent, for the sinking fund, would amount to £80,000 . a year, a not too heavy insurance on our commerce. The Cabinet had entirely concurred m the ! whole proposal, and His Excellency was asked to submit it to the British Government. A despatch V>ad also been received m which tho New Zealand Government was asked to be represented at the Imperial Conference to be held m July, and a further one expressing the hope that Sir Joseph I Ward, as Minister of Defence, would see his way to be present. Continuing, the Premier said the Government could not agree to the suggestion thai someone not** Minister of the Crown, should represent the dominion at sucl an important conference, which the Secretary of State had intimated had among other things, to consider th« offer of. a Dreadnought or two frorr New Zealand. The Home Governmeni desired representatives of the oversee dominions to be present and the responsibility was upon Parliament tc say whether, and by whom, New Zealand should be represented. The conference was of an iinprecedented character, and the Ministry was unanimously of the opinion that at such ar important ' gathering, the head oi Government ought to represent th« dominion. (Applause). He referred to what he described as an indecevrl suggestion—that he had sent .a telegram to editors of the Press, and hac not seen fit to send a- similar telegram to members. Mr T. E. Taylor—"Read the telegram. I will do so if you don't." Sir Joseph Ward retorted that Mi Taylor could do so. The telegram was marked "strictly confidential," and he had sent it to the editors of the Press. It remained for one editor m New Zealand to refer to^ the message. He had never once m his whole career dis- ! closed the contents of a confidential telegram. (Hear, hear). He had found the editors of the Press reasonable men, without exception. He had intended at the conclusion of. the meeting reading the message, if members wanted it, after -he had removed the words "strictly confidential." If a member of the House who -was m possession of such a telegram saw fit to readmit he could do so. Mr Taylor—"At your invitation." Sir Joseph Ward —"No ; you threatened to read it, and I said you could /Jo so." Sir Joseph Ward said that m connection with this offer he had declined to look at this matter from a party point of view; as he thought that m such a question they ought to rise above party feeling. At the time that ifcho offer was made, the Government (knew &pmßj;hing which had not then been made public, .and which they then thought justified jfchpm m making the offer. -That was now jb.ejng discussed throughout the country. The action of the Government had been confirmed and applauded as being m the best interests of the Empire. Sir Joseph quoted from a speech delivered by Lord Charles Beresford, m which he stated that if the country knew the I true position there would be a panje. Mr Taylor—"He made several other after dinner speeches later." Sir Joseph Ward-—"The one I refer to was not an after dinner speech." The Premier maintained that it was not a fair proposition to ask the House to go on m Parliament without its leader, especiaijy with new members and new Ministers. He did not believe the Hon. W. Hall-Jones, if asked, would accept the position of representative at the Conference, unless lie were Premier with authority to apt. As their present conference was a private .one, if members agreed to his going to ttie Conference, and the House adjouxned, -he pj?opoped to ask the House to xes,ume on "September- ,« 9% , ■ ■ ■ " • • .■■'. ■■ '\ Mr 'Massey asked for a specification or the resolution. ' Sir Joseph Ward said thajt all business could be got through .well 'and jn tjme. He had asked the Hon.' T. Y. Duncan to move a resolution. Th« Hon. T, t. Duncan moved to the effect that the Premier should represent the Government at the Conference, and that Parliament should adjourn until September 30th. On the suggestion of Mr Massey, the meeting adjourned at 5.15 until 1.6U, to allow the memoranda to be printed. #n resuming at 7.30 p.m., the Premier ,caAj.c4 on Mr Massey to speak to the .mqtidii.'" Mr Massey said it wa 3 not his intention to speak-at any great length. He intended to make his points more" clear %f« $}$ 'opening debate". He "had not .the ,sli£hte|;t fjWectibn to the proceedings of the '.meeting 4<j>ing reported by the Hansard .staff, ' : b.ut'3ie objected to the meeting being treated''as an ordinary meeting of Parliament. They ■were there iji ]th.c first place out of courtesy to the Imperial \Goy.ornment, and secondly out of pourtesy to jLhe Prime Minister of New Zealand, who had invited members to meet him that afternoon. The proceedings to-day would not be binding on any member pf Parliament. Speaking for himself and' fiib- mrty> *nev did not underestimate tlie"m;^ ortance °f tho Defence Conference.' Xsji mnt of -tho..state of affairs m Europe, "ff^s necessary for Great Britain to recast "'s}-#aval ( policy. (Hear, hear.) There no* necessity for heroics or theatrical dis-j plays. We had to be ip assist: the Empire m maintaining its supre-i macy. He would ask members what was the defence policy of this country. ; He challenged the Premier to declare tho defence policy of his Government. ( No country m the British dominions

had expended so much m its defence with so little to show for it: he was ashamed to say it. The 1 best way to assist the Empire was as Lord Rosebery said, to" put our country m a state of defence.. The people of this country were enthusiastic and willing to assist the Empire with 1 men and money. The position showed that m connection with defence matters^ we had never had a strong leader m the dominion. Mr Massey then criticised the Premier's speech, which, he said, contained much irrelevant matter, introduced with a view to clouding the issue. He was of opinion that New Zealand should be adequately represented. He would have liked to see the Premier m his place m Parliament, but he was willing to let the Premier go Home. There was no anology between the present position and that of 1897. The latter was one of unique events— events unlikely to happen again. He regretted that the financial position now was not so good as m 1897. He was of opinion that though the Premier should go Home, the business of Parliament should proceed. (Opposition hear, hears.) He recalled the late Mr Seddon's visit to Great Britain to attend the previous Defence Conference, on which occasion he left his first lientenant m charge. Who 'would say that the business of the country had suffered ? Sir Joseph' Ward said m effect that no one could carry on the work of the House iri his absence. What a compliment to his colleagues! He (Mr Massey) would like to see the matter placed above party. The fact! was that the Premier could not trust his party. In regard to Sir Joseph Ward's statement about the Dreadnought offer, Mr Massey said that if there was a crisis requiring Parliament to vote four millions of money, it would be necessary for the Government to foot the bill. There were thousands of people m the country who put Empire before country, kindred and self-interest. The party he represented was nearly equal to half the -inhabitants of the dominion. Was it not the duty of the Premier to have consulted the Leader of the Opposition? That would have been to raise the question above party, but he did not do it. Referring to the important matters requiring attention during-the coming session, Mr Massey detailed the Civil . Service, Public Works and Finance, which were only some of the subjects to do dealt with. These would make the session one of the most important ever held. The position the Opposition took up was that the country' should be represented by the Prime Minister at the Defence Conference. He quoted Mr Asquith as saying the Conference was to be subsidiary and purely consultative m character. The same invitation as New Zealand received was sent to Australia, and, as Defence Minister, he thought the Premier should go; but was it to be. held that every time a conference was held m London Parliament was to b.e postponed? He hoped that before the" Premier went away he would give the country an indication as to the line of action he intended to take up at the Conference. After having assisted the Empire, we should look to our oWn defence. He advocated a proper subsidy to .the. Imperial Navy as a better method of assistance than the gift of a Dreadnought. A battleship had a life of fifteen years at the present time. It should be our aim toVpay off a battleship m fifteen years. Mr Massey recapitulated the position taken up by the Opposition, and hoped the Premier would adhere, to the promise made before the adjournment that the .motion before the meeting would be divided into two parts to allow the meeting to decide whether the Premier should go Home, and, if so, whether Parliament should be adjourned. Replying to Mr T. E. Taylor, Sir Joseph Ward declined to answer ques--tions.; * Mr Taylor said there had been an unnecessary amount of feeling shown m the discussion. There was no need for warmth m connection with the question before the meeting. The Premier had said that a despatch expected from the British Government had not arrived. That was a remarkable circumstance. The Naval Conference was being held with a view to getting over the embarrassment caused by New Zealand's offer. Referring to the question previously asked by him m regard to an official communication, Mr Taylor said he saw no reason for confidential documents. He protested against these being marked confidential and not disclosed. He asked whether there were any despatches to the Imperial Government couched m such a way as to force it to call a Conference. Members should have had the whole' of the despatches read to them. Hereferred to the anxiety to consult Parliament on the representation at the Conference, while it was completely ignored when a question involving an expenditure of four millions was decided. He asked why the telegram to the Press editors was marked strictly confidential. Until he (Mr Taylor) had said he had the telegram, nothing was said by the Premier as to special knowledge m the possession of the Government, other thari what had been published m the Press. He did not believe there was a parallel m history for the Government's action. He did not believe the Imperial authorities would accept the offer. Mr Taylor quoted Mr Balfour and Sir Charles Dilke m support of the contention that there was no need for panic. Reverting to the telegram incident, Mr Taylor asked, why had this communication been made to editors and none to members of Parliament or the Leader of the Opposition? He could see a desire apparent that this telegram should not have been disclosed. Mr Taylor was proceeding to read the telegram, when Sir Joseph Ward asked: "Who gave it to you?" Mr Taylor: Let me tell the Premier I have never betrayed any man's confidence. Continuing, Mr Taylor said he had no doubt the telegram w^s intended to go to all editors. Evidently it was written m a state of mental excitement. He did not believe the rank and file of the electors would justify such a departure from Constitutional procedure. He was bound to believe that the Government had no information m its possession other than what had appeared m the Press. He complimented jbhe Premier on his speech, which had reached * high level, but it was contradictory m parts. The tone of the despatch received by the Gqvemrnent did not indicate that it was necessary for the dominion to be. represented by the premier. H© denied the truth of the Premier's statement that the Conference was of more jnvportance than the business of New Zealand. Thousands of men were out of employment—3ooo or 4000 would be no over-estimate. Surely we could secure representation at the Conference without dislocating the business of Parliament.. The Premier's personal^ desire to figure on. the Imperial _ stage I was largely responsible for his attitude. Matter!? m epnnc.ctjon with defence were'iti a'enaotje'state. Supejy that was an important ''matter. 1 ' ,no was prepared to vote for compulsory military paining, and an increased naval subsjetyy'", Closer 'settloniont, to meet the demandfoV landV was a|go _a matter 'of'some'moment. If the Premier had decided to go and allow Parliament" to gp pn m JUS absence, members would have extended every courtesy to the Cabinet, There wag absolutely no reason for postponing the session. Sir Joseph Ward announced his willingness to have the motion put m two parts, as follows: " That this meeting of members of the House, recognising the vital importance of the impending Naval Conference, considers it ue- , eesiijiry that New Zealand should be; r'e'presßirtea a£ jjuph Conference by the- Prime Minister.'.^ " This section of the'motion, on being pjjt. was declared carried. '■' : ' c The 'second p.arft of the- motion was as follows;' :f 'v r ' ' ..\ .-•,.-. " That this meeting further eon- | siders that as this is the first sessjoi) of a. new Parliament, it is ex^ pedienfc that -fch.P Prjm.e Minister should bo m his plape to explain the policy of his Government to the House, and that therefore Parliament should, after making the necessary financial arrangements to < enable the business of the country being carried on, be prorogued till 80th September next." ! ifr" James Allen moved as an amendment: '■""A'T^iajy this meeting, considering the impo.rianpe .of impending business, w.hich aoes "n'o.t admit of delay, deems 'it''advisable that jAio business of Parliament should be ; carried on without interruption.," \ The reason, he said, for the conference i was the aotiou of Canada ia deciding

to undertake her own defence. He strongly opposed the motion for the prorogation of Parliament. Had. the Premier really' looked at the matter from a non-party point of view, he would have trusted his party and Parliament to carry on work during his absence. The work of the session was too important to allow of three months being lost. He criticised the action of the Premier m refusing to go to the Conference unless Parliament adjourned; it was an attempt to coerce members. He asked the Premier to withdraw his threat. Sir Joseph Ward said he had been treated unfairly after having divided the motion into two parts. Mr Allen should have given notice of his amendment. The Government had risen above party m making the offer, and had staked its existence on its action. Much of the good-effect of the offer would have been lost had it been submitted tp Parliament m the first instance. He defended the action of the Government m making the offer. The members of Parliament were not communicated with because Cabinet considered that it would have been unfair to members, scattered as they were, to have shifted the responsibility of making the offer on tp them. He denied that the personal equation had entered his mind m connection with his visit to the Conference. He was against the holding of conferences m Great Britain concurrently with the Parliamentary session m New Zealand-. The remedy for that was the representation of the dominion m the councils of the Empire. It was contrary to fact to say that there were several-thousands of unemployed; there were not 2000. The proportion of unemployed to employed m the dominion was less than m any other country. The Government had decided to acquire a portion of land m both islands, with the view of assisting Civil Servants who- had been retired under the retrenchment scheme, not having superannuation amounting to £75 a year, to earn a living. The following is the text of the telegram sent to editors, marked "Urgent—take precedence." Editors of all newspapers where message re battleship is sent—strictly confidential. 11 have sent you an important telegram for publication m connection with crisis. I would like to impress upon you that the situation is milch graver than generally supposed, or has been published. The offer that Government has made is one which we know will greatly help Great Britain m present crisis, chiefly by virtue of moral effect, and as illustrating to Germany that British dominions will rally round Mother Country m time of imminent danger, as is apparently at present such a situation. I have felt that narrow consideration of pounds, shillings, and pence should yield to our plain duty to Britain where national existence threatened, and, therefore, fgel my duty tell you confidentially our motive and desire,to avoid publication of anything alarming; hence have made this strictly confidential.—J. G. Ward/. _ , _■ Mr 'Fisher complained that the despatches read by the Premier had not been published before, so as 'to give members more time for consideration of the question. Mr Herdman opposed the prorogation of Parliament. Referring to the failure of the defence scheme of the dominion, he said he hoped that the Premier would come back convinced of the necessity for keeping our Defence Department free from political influence. Messrs Malcolm and Lang also spoke against the postponement of the session. " . Mr Wright complained that the talking had all been on one side. Canada was, without doubt, at the bottom of the Imperial Conference. After further discussion the second portion of the motion was carried by 45 votes to 30. . ' . The division list was as follows: Ayes (45)— Messrs Arnold, Baume, Brown, Buddo, Buxton, Carroll, Clark, Colvin, Craigie, Davey, Dillon, T. Y. Durican, Ell, Field, Forbes, Fowlds, Graham, Greenslade, Guinness, Hall, Hanan, Hogan} Hogg, Laurenson, iLawry, Mac Donald, R. McKenzie, T. 'Mackenzie, Millar, Ngata, , Parata, Poland, Poole, Reid, Ross, Russell, Seddon, Sidey, Stallworthy, E. W Taylor, Buck, J. C. Thomson, Wilford, Sir J. G. Ward. Noes (30)— Messrs Jas. Allen, Anderson, Bollard, Buchanan, Buick, Dive J. Duncan, Fisher, Fraser, Guthrie, Hardy, Herdman, Hine, Lang Luke McLaren, Malcolm, Mander, Massey, Newman, Nosworthy, Okey, Pearce, •?. irps" Rllodes > Scott, T. E. Tavlor, G. M. Thomson, Witty, Wright' *