A.—4

66

With regard to the Savai'i people mentioned in clause 13 of your letter, there are a number of boats which Mr. Lewis has been taking charge of at Mulinu'u, and he will be willing to hand them over to those to whom they belong for the purpose of returning home, and the sooner they meet Mr. Lewis and decide about the details of returning home the sooner Mr. Lewis will get rid of those boats which are a responsibility to him lest the Navy should carry them off, and the better everybody will be pleased. With regard to these questions of treaties which you raise, you refer particularly to a treaty which was made some forty years ago, before most of us here except Tuimalealiifano took great interest in political matters. Many things have happened since that treaty was made. The Government of Samoa has been entirely changed since those days, and great wars have occurred which have affected the whole of the world. The Government of Samoa is now under mandate to New Zealand and has been the successor to the German Government, the German Empire having been defeated in the Great War which occurred sixteen years ago, and you ask what the object of the mandate is, you ask what is the intention of the New Zealand Government, and I can only say what I said to you before, that the object of the New Zealand Government is to administer its mandate faithfully in the interests of the Samoan people. You have only to look at your own islands, to look around you, to see the progress which has been made in these islands during the past years. I remember when I landed in Samoa first thirty-five years ago that the country had a very different aspect from what it presents to-day, that the population was very much smaller, that there were no facilities for education except such as the missions provided, that the health of the people was not cared for except in the immediate neighbourhood of Apia. There have been great changes since those days, and you yourselves will know even better than I do the difference in the position to-day. a difference which has been due to the manner in which the New Zealand Government has carried out the mandate. Now, we wish to continue that process and to give to the Samoan people a larger and larger part in their own government. But I ask you not to deceive yourselves when you consider the progress which has been made into thinking that no further progress is necessary before the time comes when Samoa can govern itself. I would ask you to consider among yourselves how many Samoans are there in these islands who are managing any business ? Do you feel capable even of managing your own missions without some assistance from European missionaries ? Your own church meetings decide from time to time that that assistance is still necessary. And taking business matters, have you any one who is trained in methods of finance, any one who has dealt with banking ? Have you any one who is capable of taking charge of the schools ? There are many very capable Samoan teachers, but is there any one yet who is capable of taking charge of the schools ? If you givo consideration to these questions, and honest answers, I think you will realize with me that the time has not yet come when you can take charge of your own affairs. Take any other branches of the Government —take the hospitals. We have now some Native medical practitioners who are beginning to get the benefit of the training that has been given in that direction, and we have now three or four Native medical practitioners in the country. There will be more from time to time as years go on> but is there one man who is capable of managing the affairs of the hospital ? Is there any trained Samoan lawyer who is capable of presiding at sittings of the Court and administering justice in accordance with the law, a matter that requires years of training and experience ? Is there any one who is capable of handling ships and managing the harbour —any one who can pilot those big ships into their anchorages, see that they are properly secured, and take charge, moreover, of their loading and unloading ? At present there are no Samoans who are managing any business concern of importance, and if up to the present you have not succeeded in managing any such concern can you hope yet to succeed in managing the concerns of thj Government, which, after all, is only a business institution, but one managed on much more wide and extensive lines than any of the branches or departments or businesses which I have mentioned. Education is required for all these things, and it is a matter of time. It is necessary that the rising generation, the young people, should be educated and trained not only to take the places of their fathers, but more than that, to take their place in the government of the country, and ultimately to take charge of the management of its concerns. I have heard you sometimes say that one must go slowly in Samoa, that we go too fast, and you ask for more time for consideration in various matters. At present it is you who are wanting to go too fast, and that is not in accordance with Samoan custom. It is I and the Government who want to go more slowly so that the foundations in this matter can be laid wisely and firmly and strongly , so that the structure when it is finally built may endure, and not be one which will fall through the weakness of its foundations. That is the answer that I have to give to your letter ; and I do not think there is anything more to be said. lam willing to call such a fono as I have mentioned, a fono which would be truly representative of the whole of the people, and at such a fono we could come to decisions which would shape the future course of Samoa. Faumuina: We have listened to your remarks answering those various matters put before you and the Minister. I will also discuss it again and answer the different matters which you have explained. With regard to the fono, and that you are going to call representatives of Samoa as you suggest, Samoa is the Mau. We have also received your instructions that the Mau should not protect the wanted men or people who have committed crimes ; but those people now called wanted men, they are the leaders, the very important chiefs who take the greater part in the discussions of the Mau. The Mau have selected the most important chiefs to deal with matters in the Mau ; they have not selected common men or men who have no standing in the affairs of the country ; they have elected the most important and those of chiefly rank to deal with the matters of the Mau. But now you have called them prisoners, you take them as offenders. We have also received another