J. C. NICHOLS.]

11

I.—lob.

Bheepowners' Federation meeting held in Wellington when a resolution was passed urging the Government to grant a license: to Messrs. Armour and Co. Since then we have: had another meeting in Dunedin, and. the former resolution passexl was affirmed. Mr. Powdrell: What is the membership of the union ? —lt is a very representative union. Have you any idea what is the actual membership— are' there a hundred members ? —Yes. se-veral hundreds. Mr. Li/snar: You say you attended a conference e>f the Sheepowners' Federation at Wellington ? —Yes. Are you aware that there was not a North Island representative at that conference ?- There; were representatives. Who were they ? —Messrs. Marshall and McLeod. They did not oppose the- resolution ?—No, they did not eippeise it. Are you aware that neither Poverty Bay nor Hawke's Bay was represented at that conference ?— That was entirely their own fault if they were not represented; Yem are aware of the tactics adopted, by Messrs. Armour and Co. ?- L have some, kind of vague, idea. Do you know of the amount of capital they have behind them ? I have read of it. What is tie' amount ? About £250,000,000. You know the conduct e>f their operations in other countries in regard to stockowners ?—I have read of it. You are; aware it has acted detrimentally to the stockowners in other countries ?—ln past history, yes. You know the tactics they adopt in connection with the- carrying-on of their business • elo they work to the' detriment of the producers ? —No, I do not think so. Henry Gascoigne examined. (No. 7.) The Chairman: Have, yem anything to say to this Committee, Mr. Gascoigne?—Although I represent the Hawke's Bay farmers lam not in a position to make; a statement. As I have been away we: have: not had a meeting, and although 1 know the feeling of (he 1 she'op-farmers in Hawke's Bay I am not at liberty to make any statement. You have received no instructions in any way ?—No. John Macdonald examined. (No. 8.) The Chairman : What are- you ?—I am a sheep-farmer. You have: a statement to make to this Committee, have you not ? —Yes. The statement I should like to make is this : When I came to New Zealand in the year 1908 two facts impressed me—one was the high price paid for land, and the other was the low price paid tor stock in the markets as eiompared with the American price. I was also surprised at the very few buyers for the large amount of stock offering. On the: American markets the buyers go right through the stock, and after the money is paid they go home the same night. I may say that the farmers as a whole right throughout the world are a great class to kick, and the same thing is in existence in New Zealand. If we- got; anything from tho Government in America we had to kick for it. I was ve-ry much impressed with the splendid system they have in America of working up the by-products, and le-t me say that they have worked that up to perfection. There, is nothing like it in the: world that I have se-en. As far as 1 e:an see our by-proeiucts arc waste:d hero. At emo of the freezing-works in New Zealand, a manager informed me that there was enough pepsin running down the pipes to run the works. I believe Messrs. Armour and Co. have one of the best laboratories in Chicago. When I attended the last conference in Wellington I mentioned that I themght it wemld be a good thing to have up-to-date- American freezingworks in Now Zealand. Mr. Massey said that we could leave that matter to British enterprise-. I would like to say, however, that there are some departments eif British enterprise that are: superior to American enterprise. This is so in cemnection with the- cotton trade. There were 10,000,000 bales of cotton producer! in the: southern States for which the farmers at that time, received 10 cents per pound, and the total amount received was £120,000,000. That is one, instance where the British enterprise is ahead of the American enterprise. When I was in Texas there were a great many farmers who came, from the southern States and I did not know one of them who objected to the Englishmen coming in and buying their cotton. I attended a goeid many meetings, and it was suggested that we: should try and adopt semie plans by which the Englishmen eiemld be made to pay a higher price for their cotton. Now, it has been stated that the operation of the Heel' Trust has driven the farmers off the land in some of the north-eastern States. It is well known that a largo number of young men brought up on the farms wont into the manufacturing towns, and a large number went west because the climate is very severe. [ may say that in the: eastern States a large, number of people died through pneumonia, caused through the very severe spring weather they have there. That, is the reason why the farms have been deserted there. They were not deserted owing to the' operation of the: Meat Trust. Whem I was in tho United States there were some ve-ry riedi Jews in New York and in London who were settling Russian Jews on these farms. In Kansas City in the year 1907 a 1,6001b. steer brought £26 13s. 4d. — that is for live weight. This steer wemld go about 960 lb. dressed weight. When I came to New Zealand a steer of this description was only bringing £9 to £9 10s. at Ede-ndale, in the Semth Island. Mr. Jennings : The figures quoted by you arc remarkable ; but would not that be brought about by tho high freight charged from New Zealand, and the fact that they arc nearer the big market ? —I do not think you could expect to get as good a price in New Zealand as in the United States, because there they have the population ; but what impressed me: in America was the way in which they work up their by-products.