G, W. LEADLEY.j

5

I.—lob.

Are you aware, of the tactics adopted by Messrs Armour and Co. there ?■ —Yes. Do you approve of those; tactics ?—-No. I suppose you have received no intimation from Messrs. Armour and Ce>. as to the way they will act i —l have received no intimation from Messrs. Armour and Co. as to what their proposed operations in New Zealand will be. You only know of their policy in the United States ?—Yes ; I know what they have been charged with. You do not approve of the procedure ?—No. Mr. II aw ken : Ye>u have in Canterbury a, firm or company which is overshadowing the; other companies and preveuiting competition '( —I do not think so for one moment. Ido not know of any company that overshadows the market, nor do 1 know of any company that has wiped out any competitor. There arc men who are; not doing as big a business as they did in former years, but they still have their buying representatives. You want more competition ?—Yes ; we want all the competition we can get. If the law as it stands to-day is not geiod enough to prevent the practices which you have described, do you suppose we could get Armour and Co. out if we wanted to ?—Yes, if it was proved that they we;re; guilty of any malpractice. You say that the farmers object te> meat trusts ?—We have nothing wo know of to charge against them. Dei you suggest that they are acting in collusion with one; another ? —No, I do not think so. You think that by Messrs. Armour and Co. operating in New Zealand they would give yem the competition you need ?—I think we; slmuld get more consistent competition than we; would otherwise. The- reason 1 think that is because either trading firms are; not hand-in-glove with Messrs. Armemr and Co., and probably they would act as a, stimulus to the market. Mr. Burnett: In tlu v event of a, license being granted to Messrs. Armour and Co., what woulel you consider sufficient grounels for cancelling that license, ?—I am not in a position to say what would be sufficient grounds. As a practical sheep-farmer ?—I do not know to what point we would allow them to go before we said to thorn, " That is unfair trade; practice and we must stop you." I werulel not like to be placed in the position of having to say, " You cannot go across that point." Supposing you occupied the position of Minister of Agriemlture, how would you put your foot de>wn on their malpractice ?—I. wemld have to be guided by the; evidenoe produced, Mr. Lysnar: If they we're- all like you no evidence would be olbtained ? —lf I thought they we're; bringing undue pressure to bear to strangle competition or to gain an undue advantage- I would be one erf the first to stop them. Hon. Mr. Nosworthy : You saie.l just now, in describing your experience of selling and that of yemr neighbour's, how the stock was elivided up by buyers : heiw do you consider by the advent of Messrs. Armour and Co. into the market they would make it any better ? —The;y might not make it any better. You are, liable to increase that difficulty instead of preventing it. You are' opening the door to another company te> e;e>ine' in and work on the same lines. The idea at the; present time' is that all the meat trusts carry out the practice suggested by you?— Not all of them. I ele> not sugge;st that all the buyers are; working under that kind of practice. When we were, suffering from the effects of the drought the; season before last wo were; told that tho freezing-works were; full and that no more carcases e;ould be got into them. The result was 1 instructed an agent to find me a buyer for my fat lambs, but he could not de> se>. I saw Messrs. Armour and Co.'s representative —who has since died—and he bought the; lambs on my preiperty. As I have already said, at that time I was told that I could not ge;t my stock into the; refrigerating-works or into any of the local works, but I know they were buying sheep all over the, place. Mr. Burnett: They controlled the space ? — They controlled the space and controlled tho market, and used it for their own purposes. Hon. Mr. Nosworthy : Wemld yem be; in favour of the' Minister of Agrie.;ulture or the Governnie;nt having control of the; whole of the space in this Dominion ?—That is a matter 1 have not thought of. 1 understood you te> say that you know what would happen if you got up against these people —that is, you would not be able to sell anything to them if you got up against them ?—Yes. If you do not knuckle down to the; combinations here now they are in a position to squeeze men out '*. -Yes; as they are now, they could oombine and refuse to buy your produce. If outside competition —that is, independent competition—were brought in 1 think this difficulty would be obviate; el. The inference from what yem say is that the whole of the operations are controlled by a trust to-day, and yem would not care to fight that trust as it exists at the present time I —No, I would nert. They have got the; people de>wn who decline to knuckle under ? —I do not want to suggest that that is a common practice, but it does happen. It happens in this way : if there is a large breeder of fat stock, the men know where the stock comes from. If a man brings his stock from a long elistance he does not care about taking them home again, and the result is he sells them at the best price offering instead of having to drive them a lemg way homo without having effected a sale. In other we>rds, if they have not got the; space available to put them in they have te> sell their stock on the open market ?—Yes, it is in their hands. It looks as if the Government wants more power instead of less power. William Van Asch examined. (No. 4.) Mr. Van Asch : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, in my opening 1 should like to say that I have; not been instructed by the Hawke's Bay Farmers' Union te> appear before this Committee, and I may say that I have put in an appearanoe on my own accord. Prior to the Dominiem Farmers' Conference taking place in July last we: helei an executive meeting of the Hawke's Bay Farmers' Union, and the folle>wing resolution was carried : " That our delegates be instructed to move at tho