15

I. — 7 A.

R. K. WILLIAMS.

5. Hon. Mr. Allrn.\ I would like to ask you, if the Act were amended so as to ensure alternative service would you refuse?—l would refuse, because that alternative service would merely be an alternative to military service. 6. What were you put in Kipa Island for? —For refusing to pay a fine. 7. You refused to register first? —Yes. 8. Then you were brought before a Magistrate?— Yes. I was fined £5. 9. And refused to pay? —Yes. 10. I would like to ask you whether you consider detention worst- than gaol?— Well, I can gay tliis : through the agitation against the Defence Act I have been in both places—-gaol and barracks. When things are going smoothly the barracks are to be preferred to gaol—the barrack was certainly to be preferred to gaol; but during the time that we were being locked up in solitary cells the conditions were worse and the food was worse. 11. If it were deemed necessary for purposes of discipline and for health purposes to employ those who were sent to detention to work about the barracks, would you —if that were deemed necessary —prefer to go to gaol than go to the detention barracks and do that work? —On no occasion was work that was necessary for health purposes refused. Orderlies were appointed among the boys to clean out rooms ana such work. That work was never refused. 12. That was dining your time? —Yes. 13. Do you know of boys refusing to clean their cells? —No. 14. Do you know whether a boy ever refused to do the work necessary for ordinary purposes of cleanliness that are natural after a night's sleep in a bedroom? —No, I know of no such case. 16. Was not carrying the coal necessary for health purposes?—No, that might not be necessary. The position was this :we would never ask other men to clean out our rooms or wait on us, but it was different with the coal; we were confineil against our will, and we did not believe in doing the soldiers' work for nothing. 16. Did the soldiers carry the coal for themselves when you were not there, as far as you know? —I do not know. 17. Was the coal not required for purposes of cooking your meals?—lt might have been; but if we had not been there there would not have been any necessity for cooking for us. 18. What is the natural result of breaking the law: can you get free from all punishment? —Certainly not. We are not complaining about the law; we are complaining that a man who has no right to administer it has done so. 19. Yon are not complaining about the law?—l am not complaining because I have been punished for breaking this particular law, but because a man punished us who had no right to do so. 20. Did you know about the regulations?— Lieutenant Mac Donald read the regulations to us the first time we came to the island. 21. So you knew? —They were long regulations and he rattled through them. 22. You heard them read?— They were taken out of the drawer of an officer's desk and put back when read. 23. When your window was altered did you keep it open?— Yes, my window was one that slid up and down. 24. About these cells?— The one that I had had apparently been used for sleeping-quarters by the Commandant before. There were three bunks. I should say these had been slept in. 25. Have you heard that officers of the Defence Forces have slept in these cells? —Well, I should think so. The one I was in had the words " Coast-defence Cormnander : Private," on the door. But I would like to point out that the Coast-defence Commander was not locked up for twentythree hours a day. 26. Might not the Coast-defence Commander have been kept locked up there if he had committed a breach of the law ? 27. Hon. Mr. Calkin.] If this country were invaded to-morrow would you not join with your fellow-citizens in defending it?—lf I thought there was any possibility of danger of invasion of this country I would still remain a Volunteer, as I was before. 28. If the country were invaded to-morrow you would remain in your house—if the country were invaded by the Japanese, for instance? —If the Japanese came here I should do my share, but that I consider impossible. 29. Assuming they did land here?— You are assuming the impossible. If they did I would not do what members of this House have done —exempt themselves. 30. You would join in the defence of the country? —Yes; but it is. I consider, an impossiblf assumption. You might as well say that Mars would invade England. 31. Would you not agree with the Defence officers in saying that we have a far better chance of defending our country if drilled? —You would have a far better chance if you had Volunteers; but I might tell you I have never any intention of volunteering. 32. In regard to the illegality you allege against the officer in Ripa Island, on what grounds do you say his actions were illegal?—On the ground that the Act itself— a section of this Act says that for any breach of discipline that takes place an offender must be brought before a Magistrate. 33. Have you not read the regulations? Do you not know that an interpretation of the regulations provide for the officer ordering you to do the acts he did?— Lieutenant Mac Donald can order you to do anything, but he cannot punish you. 34. Then you say that Lieutenant Mao Donald's action was illegal because he had no power under the Defence Act to punish you?— Yes. 35. Hon. Mr. Duthie.] I understand that it is your firm determination that you will not do military duty. Then no punishment would be sufficient to drive you to it : you are determined to resist? —Absolutely to resist.