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64. He was to come to you I —Yes. 65. Did he express his willingness to see you individually] — Yes. 66. Did you threaten when you withdrew from that interview? —No, 1 said this: that 1 hoped they would not publish in the papers that we had no grievances, because we had grievances; and then I said, " If you do, when we get out we can make it hot for you." 67. Would you not consider that threatening language? —This is the position —I do not know whether you recognize it or not : the must effective way of making it hot for a person is to show him up from the platform—that is I lit- sense in which the words were used. 68. That is an afterthought, is it not? —No. 69. Did you see Colonel Collins and the party going away by the launch that same day? — Yes, I think so. 70. Were you with the others when they commented upon this departure? —I was in the room. 71. Tell us what happened) —There was a lot of booing. 72. What language was used? —None at all. 73. Did you say, " Go back to the dogs who suit you "?— No. 74. If Colonol Collins says that they did say that will you deny it [— No, 1 will not deny it personally. 7."). " Go back to the dogs who sent you " : is that threatening language) —I am not saying that it was used. 76. You will not deny it? —No. 77. Hon. Mr. Duthie.~\ 1 understand that you refuse to answer any question except as regards alleged illegality?—lf I had come up here to give suggestions 1 could give them. 78. You refused to carry coal because it was military duty? — Yes; and I contend that even if it was a soldier's duty to cany coal they receive a wage for that, and we do not, and I cannot see why they should be loafing round and we doing their work. 1 contend that they should get the wharf labourers who are unemployed. 79. What are your reasons for refusing military duty?—l do not recognize military authority. 80. At what stage would you leoognize your obligation to tight Eor your country.'—You are trying to get me to give my suggestions. I say 1 am only giving evidence on the illegalities on Ripa Island. 81. The Chairman.] Do you refuse to answer that question? 82. I/on. Mr. Duthie.] At what stage would you consider it a matter of conscience for you to defend the country?—l refuse to answer that. Hon. Mr. Duthie: I think it is a light question — at whal stage would he consider it was his duty to fight for the country in a military capacity. The Chairman : 1 would like to mention to the witness thai this Committee is not hostile to your association at all. Now is your opportunity to give your suggestions if you wish; if you do not want to, the Committee is quite satisfied. 83. Hon. Major ll'orris, jlf the military authorities had asked you to protect some women and children, would you consider it your duty to do it, the same as you were asked to carry the coal? —Mr. Chairman, if I answer that question I want to do so in my own words. 84. Would you in case of an invasion put yourself under the protection of men or women? —I tell you how I will answer that. Perhaps it is not so bad for a young fellow or a boy of fourteen to put himself behind a father and a mother as it is for able-bodied men to put themselves behind boys. 85. Do you call yourself a boy?— The law itself calls me a boy until I can defend the country, according to the men who make the laws of this country. I say that it is far better for boys to hide behind a man or woman than it is for the able-bodied men to hide behind boys, as is done at the present time. 86. Hon. Mr. Smith.] What is your age, Mr. Worrall? —I am over twenty-one. 87. Then you are a man both in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of the Act?— Sometimes. 88. Always?—No, I am not at the present time. 89. About these cells 1 would like a little information : the cells wni' about Bft or 10ft ? —Yes. 90. You would not complain that they were unreasonably small?— There are four bunks in the cells, which fill up the space. It has been stated that there is a walking-space; as a matter of fact there is not. 91. Only two men were put in each cell? —Yes. 92. The partitions went so-far up and then it was open above?— Yes; in two lots of rooms the partitions went 7ft. or Bft., and then there was a gable roof. There was no ventilation until we complained to the doctor. 93. Did you open the windows after that? —Before the liars woe put on the windows were nailed up outside; there was a small piece of wood put to prevent the window opening. On the two sides there was a small hole about 8 in. by 6 in. ; thai was blocked up. Ihere was no ventilation until we complained to the doctor. He went in to see the rooms, and the next thing the windows were opened; then the bars were put on afterwards. 94. When the bars were put on and the wood was removed the windows could be opened? Yes, and they were generally open. On some of the windows there was a lever to keep them open. 95. As to the rations, you did not know the rations that were laid down by the doctor? 1 could not say. 96. But supposing the doctor had laid down a ration for you, taking into consideration the fact that you were not exercising, and the ration issued was slightly in excess of that, if you were underfed it was your fault? — Under short rations we were supposed to have a certain