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upon it, because there is no other body to which those matters —which in many cases are of purely provincial interest—can be referred. For example, the other day in one city an application was made for a Government grant for a museum. In another city the Domains Board desires to regulate the Government representation upon that body according to the amount of annual subsidy which the, Government is prepared to pay. Surely the museums should be regarded as provincial institutions rather than as national ones. In exactly the same way the domains of cities should be regarded with pride by the people of the provincial district, and should be supported by provincial funds rather than by State grants. I now come to another question that has been dealt with in connection with the Provincial Councils—l refer to education; but as the Government intends to set up a Commission at an early date to consider the question I do not propose to deal further with it. While many of the subjects on which I have spoken are of great importance, -you will see for yourselves that it is almost impossible for the Central Government to undertake a service which is of particular benefit to one district without laying itself open to claims from every other district for exactly the same thing. I have now, gentlemen, endeavoured to show you the principles that underlie the provincial system that is proposed in this Bill. It is possible that the Bill goes too far, but I am satisfied that if that system were established on statesmanlike lines, and with due regard to existing rights, and were in force a sufficient number of years to test it, its benefits would be so apparent in the power of local self-govern-ment that would be given to the people that it would be regarded as a priceless heritage, leading to a higher state of local government than we have ever had before. Debts of Local Bodies at 31st March, 1911. £ Counties . . . . . . .. . . 185,631 Boroughs . . . . . . .. . . 8,399,327 Town Boards .. . . . . .. . . 74,265 Road Boards . . . . . . . . . . 72,776 River Boards . . . . . . . . . . 27,350 Land Drainage Boards . . ... . . . . 42,827 City and Suburban Drainage Boards . . . . 865,000 Water-supply Boards . . . . . . .. 15,000 Tramway Boards .. .. .. .. 447,000 Harbour Boards .. .. .. . . 6,002,400 £16,131,776 Of this sum, £8,658,476 has been raised in New Zealand (including £404,163 from the State Guarantee Office), and £7,473,300 outside New Zealand. But besides the above amount of . . .. . . . . £16,131,776 there was a sum of . . . . . . . . . . . . £1,025,663 owing to the Government under the Roads and Bridges Construction Act, Government Loans to Local Bodies Act, and Loans to Local Bodies Act, making a total debt of . . . . . . . . .. £17,157,439 The total charge for interest and sinking fund is . . . . £884,655 to which must be added .. .. .. .. .. £116,155 payable annually under the Loans to Local Bodies Act, being a total annual charge on the local bodies of . . . . . . . . £960,810 To indicate the growth of the local-government debt it is sufficient to show the figures, as follows (including Government loans): — £ 1881 ... . . . . . . . . . . 3,039,807 1891 .. ... .. . .. .. .. 6,414,725 1901 . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,465,838 1906 . . . . . . . . . . . . 12,298,545 1911 . , ~ ~ ~ , , .. 17,157,439