W. C. W. MCDOWELL.]

19

L— l3a.

should go on xvith it. But Ido not think that prevents the association trying to give as high an education as possible to those who have disdainfully been called night students. I should like to call attention to what the University of London has done with regard to night students. I find that there are two statutes of the University of London with regard to internal students respecting this. One statute reads : "No disability shall be imposed upon any internal student by reason of the approved course of study pursued by him being or having been pursued in the evening alone." The other statute reads : " The Senate shall not impose any limit of time or require any number of hours' study within a limited period or make any similar provision xvhich will prevent such internal students as study in the evening from obtaining a degree as internal students." That quotation shows the view of the University of London with regard to the night student, and I hope nothing will be done as the result of the present appeal to Parliament that will place any disability upon the night students of our Nexv Zealand University. I should like, briefly, to refer to the question of medical students, which has been raised this morning, and to express my regret that there has been some sort of disparagement also made xvith regard to the quality of the teaching in our University School of Medicine at Dunedin. I claim that the School of Medicine has been a most successful school indeed. It is well equipped for its work as far as the tuition goes, and it has turned out men in every way thoroughly qualified for the xvork of the profession of medicine; and there is no reason whatever to cast any disparagement on the good work that has been done by the Medical School at Dunedin. It is true, sir, that it has a comparatively limited amount of clinical material to xvork upon, but it has been customary for the students in Dunedin, after qualifying, to go abroad, and I knoxv they are distinctly encouraged by their professors to go abroad in order to make up what has been found to be deficient through post-graduate xvork, facilities for which are freely offered in the Old Country. I know a great many students who have been able to do that. A Dunedin student, when he goes abroad, has great advantages in regard to his studies. Dunedin being a small school, the professors of the different subjects are able to devote a great amount of their time to individual students. A man is able to get thoroughly qualified in his work, and having passed through his degree here he understands the points on xvhich he needs further experience, and that is xvhy so many students go away from New Zealand to other places and especially to Edinburgh to complete their medical education. To a man living in Auckland the expense of sending his son and maintaining him in Dunedin is not very much less than it xvould be to send him to England. There is only the expense of the voyage one way to England to be considered, because on the return journey the students nearly always come out as surgeons of a ship. Now, on account of the small amount of clinical training his son would get in Dunedin, xvould it not be better reasons for a parent to send him to the University of Edinburgh, where there is plenty of material, rather than to send him to Dunedin? The Dunedin School serves its purpose admirably indeed, and specially suits students living in Dunedin, Christchurch, and other toxvns near- at hand. I knoxv from personal experience as a medical student that those are the arguments which are used. One of the chief attractions in the Old Country is that there are so many opportunities for a student. The medical journals are full of advertisements for house surgeons and specialists in the different hospitals, and it is as house surgeon the student finds his footing. The house surgeons required here are very fex\- —perhaps three or four every year; but in the Old Country there are so many opportunities, and that is why so many men go to England for medical study —it is not because they look with disdain or want of trust on the teaching provided in our Medical School in Dunedin. There is just one word more I should like to say with regard to research. In training the student for definite research there is a danger of beginning too early. One should like to have a broader basis of general knoxvledge and acquaintance xvith instruction in what has been accomplished up to the present time before they begin to make researches on their oxvn account. In practically all the faculties there are three grades —there is the bachelor, the master, and the doctor; and my opinion is that this research xvork should be practically confined to those studying for honours. They should do a certain amount of research xvork in order to obtain the master degree for either arts or science, and then original research should be pursued for the doctor degree—for the doctor of literature, science, and laxv, and other faculties. It is at that stage of the degree that the University is making the highest provision for research in the different faculties, I should like to note, with reference to the second question, that the association referred to the people in other parts of the world, and that was the question of the constitution of the University Senate, and the proposal they made in regard to that. I should like to say that the present constitution of the University Senate is in every way a remarkably good one, and that the Seriate since it xvas constituted has done exceedingly good xvork. It has been described as a pre-eminently lay body, and I do not think it deserves that description. It certainly is not a pre-eminently lay body. There are twenty-four members of the Senate, and, as the association points out, there are on it six active professors out of twenty-four members, and one retired professor. They hav3 a full knoxxdedge, surely, of xvhat is required in the construction of curricula for the different degrees. And then xve have another member of our Senate, Mr. Hogben, who I do not think can be regarded as a layman, especially in the preparation of a syllabus—l think he is past-master of that—so that I think all important questions receive due attention, seeing that there are seven or eight men xvho have practical, everyday knowledge of the matters which surround the professors in regard to their work. And then on the Senate xve have men xvho have been intimately acquainted with educational xvork in this country —Sir Robert Stout, the Chancellor, Sir Charles Boxven, the Vice-Chancellor, and Sir Maurice O'Rorke. Those men have done yeoman service in regard to carrying out the education system of this country. And there is also Mr. James Allen, for I place him among the pioneers of education in Nexv Zealand. There are eight graduates' representatives, and three men who are medical men, among whom I am included, and we are qualified to advise on courses of medical studies. Mr. Hay and Dr. Fitchett, who have been connected xvith the University Senate since its first establishment, and xvho