W. C. W. MCDOWEIsL.J

17

1.—13 a.

direct examination by an examiner for the degree, but some weight should be given to the point that when a student has passed his third annual term examination and satisfied his teacher he is, irr his teacher's opinion, competent for his degree immediately before he passes his last examination set by the external examiner in England, and so the candidate comes forward xvith a certificate from his professor that in passing his annual examinations he is qualified to obtain his degree. That is a certificate xvhich is corroborated or otherwise by the external examiner. So, sir, xve claim that our system of test is partly conducted by the internal professor and partly by the external examiner. Noxv, the Graduates' Association of Auckland also objects very much to the idea propounded by the Reform Association that the examinations should be conducted solely by the teachers of the subjects. They think that xvould be most undesirable. They think, as has been pointed out, that it might lead much more to the danger of a system of cramming than the system at present in vogue. I xvould ask, xvould it not be possible, if the examination were limited to the four teachers of the subject, for the students, through interchange of notes, to get to knoxv the idiosyncracies of the professors if they xvanted to pass through their examinations easily in that way? I do not think the majority of graduates xvould be xvilling to have this system of internal examination solely. The only country in which this is carried out is America. It is carried out to some extent in Germany, but in Germany—and I knoxv something of German education because 1 was a student in the University of Berlin —the student has to pass a very drastic system of secondary education—a very broad culture is demanded of the German student—before he enters the university , and in that xvay the ill effects that might result from the system are to a large extent avoided. The system of examining by teachers alone is characteristic of very many American universities, and I do not think that those interested in education, in this country at any rate, are so enamoured of the general reputation of American universities and schools as to say they should like to see this system carried into effect in Nexv Zealand; and the only thing that could be substituted for the present external examiners would be to have assessors appointed in Nexv Zealand to be associated with the professors here, and I do not think the time by any means has come for that. I base my opinion on my experience for eight years as a member of the Medical Committee on the Senate, xvhich has had to do with outside assessors in connection with the medical examinations, and it has been a matter of very great difficulty to find men outside to act as examiners. We found the difficulty very great in the intermediate subjects of physiology, pathology, and materia ruedica, because it is impossible for men engaged in a busy practice to keep up to date in these particular studies, and the same thing to some extent applies to medicine, surgery, and midwifery. In Nexv Zealand xve have had men well qualified in these departments, but they find it is difficult to keep up xvith the advancement in these subjects, and it would be very difficult with men otherwise qualified if they had not had experience in examinations, xx'hich is essential to any one being associated in examination of university students. I should like to say this, sir, that I do not think it is possible noxv, or for many years, judging from my experience in medicine, to find an assessor- that could be associated xvith the professor in the several subjects of the arts and sciences. What xvill happen in years to come I do not know, but I certainly feel convinced that the time has not yet arrived when such a system might be instituted, and in the meantime I feel that nothing should be done to tamper xvith the present method. We have the partly internal and partly external examination, which has done so much to maintain file high standard of the degree in the estimation of people abroad. I repeat that it is a high standard. The value of a degree depends upon the standard of examination, and upon the individual performance of the holder of the degree, and the teacher of the school under whom he has xvorked, and I think these requisites have all been filled in the case of the New Zealand student. The degree of the New Zealand University in the estimation of people abroad, I knoxv, is a high one indeed. Ihe qualification of the student of our schools is a high one, I also know from my experience. In the course of my study at Edinburgh for medicine, among the students there xx'ere many from the Medical School of the University at Dunedin—there xvere many of us who had taken the intermediate medical examination or full arts course of the New Zealand University; and I may say that the records of the Nexv Zealand men during that time—and T have carefully xvatched the records of medical students'xvho had partly studied in Nexv Zealand and partly in Edinburgh— showed that they maintained a very high reputation indeed, and by the standard they have acquired they have made the university xvork done by the New Zealand students very much appreciated indeed. Then, sir, I think xve have the fact that our students are able to quote the circumstance that they have been under men xvhose names are respected irr the laboratories of the highest teachers in the Old World. I am sure that any student going from Auckland with a certificate from Professor F. Broxvn, or Professor Thomas; or Professor Chilton, of Canterbury College; or Professors baby and Easterfield, of Wellington, xvould satisfy teachers in the Old World that they had been trained under men of high reputation. In my opinion the University of New Zealand has succeeded in placing on the men a hall-mark of quality that is not to be despised under any test of the value of a university degree. I should like to refer members of the Committee to the letter of Professor Oman in the Reform Association's pamphlet, page 158, in xvhich he points out the feeling of Oxford University in regard to teachers taking the examination. He says, " I am entirely unacquainted xvith the special conditions of New Zealand University teaching, but if I am asked to give Oxford experience I may say that feeling there is absolutely against allowing anything like a certificate from the teachers to supersede the examination class as a test of merit. I note in one of t'..e papers sent in the extraordinary statement that ' the tendency of modern education is to ask not xvhat degree a man has, nor where he obtained it, but xvho was his teacher in his principal subjects?'" And then he says. "In the txvo great schools of classics (Literse Humaniores) and modem history, in which I have been teaching in Oxford for the last twenty-five years, this is not my experience. Professors are human, and there can be no doubt there is a tendency in every man to ' mark up ' the student xvho reproduces the theories and facts which we have taught him in a clear and intelligent shape. I am not sure there is not a corresponding

3—l. 13a.