T. A. HUNTER.;

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40. Is it a matter of population or a matter of standard ! —The two are inextricably mixed up together. Only a certain proportion of the inhabit ants of the country are fit for the higher studies. You can only have a certain number of lawyers and doctors, because only a certain proportion of the population have the means of paying for their education. 41. I asked whether it was a matter of population or a matter of standard of work that was necessary for the degree?—lt seems to me that in order to get numbers into the college you have to get population 42. That would apply in both cases, whether you keep them separate or conjoined in New Zealand? —It would not probably make any difference, but it would mean that the number of students and the resources of New Zealand would have to be divided by four. There is one university that has something like 1,800 students. 43. Mr. tleriliiutn . ] Supposing you had four distinct universities here, would that mean that you would have a Medical School and classes for law. the arts, and science? —Yes. 44. Would that be financially possible in a country like this J —No. 15. Mr. Allen.] Why could you not specialize?—lf that were done we might have in three of the centres a specialized school and in one of them an institution which we could call the University. 46. Mr. Si/ley.] It is purely a question of money. There is no compulsion on the four colleges as to what courses they should take. As a matter of fact, we have no School of Law in Otago now? — I understand there was a Lecturer of Law (here list year. My statement was based on that fact. 47. Mr. Luke.] At the present time examinations in reference to the School of Engineering in Christohurch, both on the technical and theoretical side, is confined absolutely to Christchurch, is it not? — I think you are wrong. I believe they are all examined in England. 48. In theory i —Yes. 1!). Does the same apply to medicine?— No. Professor HwUer: Generally speaking, the examination in engineering is done at Home. The candidate must get a certificate from the professor before he can sit. In medicine the examination is conducted by the teacher with an assessor. The M.D. degree is examined at Home. 50. Has there been any weakness demonstrated on the technical side through the examination being held in England) — That is a question lam not competent to answer. My opinion, so far as it is of any value through talking to the students and so on, is that the engineering degree is looked upon as a very good degree. Hut in the case of the engineering degree you had a professor with a perfectly free hand; and if we may judge by outside results—say, by the positions held subsequently by the men who have left New Zealand —the Engineering School has been one of the most successful in the Dominion. But the whole matter does not depend merely upon examination. If you go to the Otago Medical School you find there a small population and an absence of clinical material. You can make engines, but you cannot make the diseases to combat which a knowledge of medicine is required. In one of the issues of The Times lately an engineer of repute, associated either with the Hoard of Trade or some Department of the English Government, condemned the system of holding engineering examinations by purely written papers. ."> I. The Chairman.] What paper do you refer to?—lt was the Engineering Supplement in the London Times. In the April number, I think. 52. Mr. Luke.] We heard that the English people estimate the colonial diploma on the same basis as the American one: do you think that opinion is prevalent?—l should think not. In America you have institutions that are universities and some that are not. The value of the degree varies with the university by which it is granted. The same thing holds with us. Ido not think the holding of examinations at Home has had any value so tar as the degree is concerned. 53. Seeing that a proportion of the examinations have to be held in New Zealand, you maintain that it would be safe to take the whole of the work in New Zealand?—l maintain that it is the best method in the interests of education. 54. (To Professor Yon Zedlitz) : Would ii not be better for the professors to get a fixed annual income, with a provision made for some system of pensions, than that the professors should build up their income by a system of fees? —Certainly. \V. ('. W. McDowell, H.A. (N.Z.), M.D., Member of the New Zealand University Senate, Auckland, made a statement and was examined. (No. !).) Witness: Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, —I am much indebted to you for your courtesy in inviting me to appear at this stage on account of my having to leave Wellington to-morrow. I feel much obliged to you and to Mr. Herdman, because I understand that the witnesses for the Reform Association have not I'ullv completed their evidence. I come here primarily as an advocate of the Auckland University College Graduates' Association, in answer to this letter: "University College, Auckland, 3rd' September, 1911.— W. C. W. McDowell, Esq., M.D., President, Auckland University College Graduates' Association. —Sir, —I am instructed by the Auckland University College Graduates' Association to ask you if you would kindly attend on behalf of the association the meeting of the Committee lately appointed by Parliament to consider the question of university reform and bring to the notice of such Committee the following resolution which was unanimously carried at the last general meeting of the association : ' The Auckland University College Graduates' Association is of opinion that it would be seriously detrimental to the interests of the New Zealand University to abolish the present system of degree examinations.'—l have, &c, DOUGLAS CHALMERS, Hon. Secretary, Auckland University College Graduates' Association." 1 am sorry to say, sir, that we were unable to get more than one copy of the platform of the University Reform Association prior to our meeting, and we were not therefore able, at the meeting called to discuss the question, to deal with all the proposals set forth in that pamphlet. But the question that more immediately concerned the graduates was the proposal to interfere with the present mode of conducting the University examinations for the degree. I may say that this matter