1.—13 a.

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[<}. \V. YON ZEPLITZ-

considered in the election of members of these Councils. 1 might mention that the proposal in the Bill is that there should be a group of four members appointed by the Governor in Council, two from the Professorial Board — well, without mentioning the numbers; the governing Council will also consist of representatives from the graduates, Education Board, the City Council, teachers of public schools, teachers of secondary schools, and we also suggest representatives from the Hospital and Charitable Aid Boards and High School Boards. I want to ask your opinion with regard to these proposals, and if you think they are on wrong lines what constitution do you suggest? —I am not sure that I am a suitable person to reply to that particular question, or so suitable as some of my colleagues might be. The reason which leads me not to like proposals of that kind is because, as far as I can judge, in t!ic past they have been interpreted as meaning that certain classes of individuals more or less interested should be protected by representation. The representation of interests of that kind I look upon as attacking the problem from the wrong end. because it induces a feeling that their business would be to protect or guard the interests of the class they represent and not to promote the interests of the University regarded as a whole. That kind of objection does not apply in the slightest degree to the appointment of members of the Dunedin City Council. For instance, we have not had any representation of the City Council, ami we very much regret it. That makes all ilie difference. 1 think the arrangements hitherto adopted for the Professorial Boards or School Boards In be represented have been calculated to produce unsatisfactory results. 10. You recognize that to put individual City Councillors into a constituency along with all the others would be practically valueless? — Practically valueless. We are putting forward a principle and leaving it to you to apply it as you think fit. 11. Mr. Allen.~\ Why do you think i 1 would be valueless.' I simply echoed what Mr. Sidey said on the subject without much thought. 12. Some references are made in this pamphlet to what have been termed a number of bad appointments made in the professors t — Yes. 13. Do you consider that applies to all the colleges?—l know it applies to ours, and that, of course, is the only one of which 1 have absolutely direct evidence; but I am strongly of opinion that it also applies to one, it not more, of the others. It is a question there of not speaking without absolute personal knowledge, and I am only personally satisfied that there have been bad appointments in one, but 1 think there have been more. 14. What proportion, do you think, of the total number? —It is not large; but from our point of view even one bad appointment on a relatively small staff is a tiling which, of its kind, is calculated to throw back the value of the institution and of higher education for a great many pears. It is a matter, perhaps, of forty years in some circumstances. 15. One other point occurred to me, and that is a matter I noticed when reading through the pamphlet: it is the number of medical students attending the schools in Edinburgh. "In 1909 forty-eight New-Zealanders passed medical examinations at Edinburgh." How many of those took part of their course in Dunedin, because it has been customary lor students to take some portion of their course there? Perhaps they graduate and then go home for a course in the Edinburgh University. There is a particular statement made here, and 1 want to know if you can tell us how many of that number attended the Dunedin Medical School?—-Our attention was drawn to the fact by a letter from one of our correspondents in England, in which he pointed out that he had been struck by the fact that the number of New-Zealanders studying at English or Scottish Universities was much in excess of those from Australia. 16. You are not in a position to state the number —you have not the information as to whether any of those mentioned here took part of their course in Dunedin?—l am afraid not. I think a good many of them have done so. Professor Hunter recalled. (No. 8.) 1. The Chairman.] You are opposed to the system of external examination? —Yes. 2. Do you approve of the suggestion that the examinations should be conducted as they are in the medical schools, where the professor examines for the degrees along with one assessor? — Personally ] should have no objection to that. .'3. Do you think that system would be suitable, say, in the examination for the degrees in the arts and sciences of New Zealand at the present time? —No, I believe not. i. What would be the objections?— The objection I foresee is this : first, an objection in regard to getting a suitable man to act as an assessor in certain departments. I know it is possible in some subjects, but in other subjects it is difficult to get even one assessor for the whole of the Dominion. The reasonable way out of the difficulty is to modify the principle by setting up Boards of Examiners from the teachers in the four colleges. 5. That is to say. the examination in classics might be conducted by the four professors in the four colleges?— Yes. 6. Is it not a fact, speaking generally, that an examiner does not in his examination go beyond work that has been done in the class—really, not far outside of his own notes.'—That is not my experience. I can quote my own case. The New Zealand University does not recognize any work in experimental psychology, and for the most part I treat psychology from that point of view. 7. Is that not likely to be I lie case more in some cases than in others? —I think it depends upon the professor. 8. Do }ou think the effect of the external examination is to induce the students to read a little outside the professor's notes?— No. I think it may induce a student who is under a professor who is trying to give him a good view of his subject not to pay any attention at all, but to read up the book the examiner has written. I think you will find the books on the subject written by the examiners are as far as possible the books that the students use.