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XI

to Mr Hine to ask him to formulate his charges and to commit him to what he has to put before the Committee, and then decide afterwards. If we are not going to permit him to have counsel, let us know 1 suggest that we should allow them all, to-day, to have counsel, and then ask Mr Hine to formulate his charges. It is imjjossible to get them here before us to-day, but we can invite him to attend at our next meeting, and state that he must at that meeting put succinctly before us his charges, in writing if necessary. Mr Reed I quite agree with what Mr Allen has said. Ido not think one counsel should be allowed to come here until all the counsel can be here together We could pass a resolution that we would allow counsel eventually to appear that Mr Hine should appear first, and then, when we start to go into the work, we would hear counsel on all sides. Motion made, That Mr Hine be invited to appear before the Committee at its next meeting, and fully formulate, in writing or otherwise, the charges he made in the House, as referred to in the order of reference." Mr Fraser Will you include in your motion that, after formulating his charges, Mr Hine be allowed counsel to conduct his case? Right Hon Sir J G Ward-. No , let us have this motion first. Motion agreed to unanimously Right Hon. Sir J G- Ward: I rather think we ought to have the charges made first and the legal gentlemen's attendance considered afterwards. As soon as we hear the names of those against whom Mr Hine alleges his charges, the Chairman should inform the parties concerned what Mr Hine's charges are, and ask them if they want counsel to appear for them, then the Committee can pass a resolution that all the applicants can have counsel. Mr Fraser: Why not have them now? Right Hon. Sir J G Ward You might be forcing these people. Why should they not be first' told by the Chairman that they should apply for counsel to be present if the}- so desire. If you pass a resolution now, it will be telling these people that there is a serious offence alleged against them, and they might consider that they were told to have counsel. It should be a matter for those concerned to determine. Mr Buchanan: Will you look at it from this point of view : It is a jn-otection to the others if they are informed of the intention of Mr Hine to have counsel. Right lion. Sir J G Ward That is what the Chairman should do. A resolution passed now would be practically inviting it. The Chairman In the resolution you have just agreed to there is no mention made of the time within which Mr Hine should make his charges. I think a time ought to be fixed, otherwise it might go on ad infinitum. We should fix a date. Mr Grafiam: Ido not think this Committee should insist that all the parties should have counsel. We are simply giving them the option. I think it is only rigid that Mr Hine should come and formulate his charges, and if he asks for counsel I think it would be a fair thing to let him have it, and intimate to all the other parties that he proposes to have counsel. But we cannot insist on them having counsel. The Chairman. We have to fix the date and hour of our next meeting Mr Fraser The business will be technical. What Mr Hine will do, probably, when he receives notice is to attend, and then will have to be decided what witnesses have to be called and how we shall conduct the business. Right Hon. Sir J G Ward It is desirable that we should all be here. The Cftairman: We have agreed that Mr. Hine be invited to attend the next meeting of the Committee and formulate his charges, and Mr Reed now moves that the next meeting of the Committee be held on Wednesday, 12th October, at 10 30 a.m. Motion agreed to. Mr Massey Should we not let Mr Hine know that he can get counsel, and give the other people the same right ? Right Hon. Sir J G Ward I have no objection to Mr Hine being represented by counsel, but until the charges are made we do not know who the parties are, and these parties have a right to be informed of the charges and told, that the Committee have agreed that Mr Hine should have counsel. They should also be informed that if they desire to have counsel they will be allowed to do so. Until that is done we cannot interfere. The letter received from Mr M. Myers was ordered to be held over for further consideration The Chairman I suggest that no newspaper comment should be permitted on the evidence as the business proceeds, but that the cases should be regarded as sub judice Suggestion agreed to.

Wednesday, 12th October, 1910. The Chairman In accordance with the request of the Committee at our last meeting, I drafted a letter, and had it served on Mr Hine, member for Stratford, asking him to attend to-day and formulate his charges. The following is a copy of the letter served on Mr Hine by the Clerk of this Committee ' Sim,— "Wellington, 6th October, 1910. I am directed by the Chairman and members of the Select Committee appointed by the House of Representatives to inquire into the allegations made by the member for Stratford during the debate on the Financial Statement, and published on page 461 of the second volume of Hansard for this session, dated 10th August,, 1910, concerning the purchase of private estates by the Crown for the purposes of closer settlement, and which are more particularly set out in the copy of the