H. GAETEE.J

59

I.—9a.

245. I put it to you that the horse-tramway oar does six miles an hour and stops whenever required, not at set stops. Do you still maintain your position ?—Yes. I have considered the matter, and I have the support of Mr. Richardson and Mr. Holmes, and I maintain that the speed should not be faster down-hill than you can drive the car up. But, as to talking about miles to the average motorman, he cannot judge speed so accurately as that. There should be a speedgauge also. r 246. Here is a speed-limit of fifteen miles an hour?— Yes. 247 Should a third of the trip be taken up in stoppages on that line ?—1 could not say In support of my contention that they are running too fast, there have been four fatal accidents. 21-8. Will you have the same trouble when the air brakes are put in?—lt will help us a little. 249 How many compulsory stops are there on the Heme Bay line? Four. 250. Is :t a thickly populated district all through ?—Fairly It is a suburban district. 251. Talking about the interference of Mr Brennand, he is a man of very strong character is he not?—He is a very nioe man. 252. He is a man of strong character?—l should take him to be a man of good character 253. I am asking you whether he is a strong man?—l say Mr Brennand is a man of good character & 254. Is he a man that is easily influenced ?—lt all depends upon who is trying to influence 255. Do you think he would be affected by one of his inferior officers?—l think he would. 256. Has he not revolutionized your methods in that portion of the company's service?— Yes 2M So that the improvement made by him and by Mr. Walklate and the other officials in the last few years was praised by the Brakes Commission Have you read the report of the Brakes Commission? It says, "The standard attained on the Auckland tramways is below that of the other lines, but there is evidence that a great improvement has been effected by the present officials, who appear to be desirous of using all means at their disposal to place their equipment in a more satisfactory condition." Do you agree with that statement?— Yes. 258. Then, again, the Commissioners say, "In this connection it may be stated that a pleasing feature in the work of the Commission has been the capacity, zeal, and interest in all that pertains to tramways shown by the officers of the systems visited." Do you agree with that? —I cannot give an answer to that, 259 You have said you think the Government have power to inspect a car before it is put out, but not afterwards? —Yes, unless in case of an accident. 260. Who told you that?—l was informed so. I do not know who said it. It was either read out or given out. 261 Is it a legal opinion?— No. 262. This is from the first Auckland Order in Council: "After the construction of the tramway the Council shall at all times keep and maintain the whole of the tramway and undertaking in good repair and condition to the satisfaction of the Engineer The tramway shall be deemed to be completed for the purposes of this Order and within the meaning of the Tramways Act when the same shall be certified to be complete and fit for traffic by an engineer, to be appointed in that behalf by the Governor, such engineer to be entitled for the purpose of such certificate to inspect the tramway and undertaking, the cost of such certificate and inspection to be paid by the Council. The Council shall at all times keep, use' and maintain a sufficient supply of cars, wagons trucks, and plant of all kinds to efficiently subserve the purposes of the undertaking and secure to the public the full benefit of the tramway " Supposing the Minister was administering this Order in Council, would not that give him power to inspect the cars to see if that were carried out?—l do not see it. Then, your opinion on this matter is that without knowing anything about the Order in Council you cannot discuss it ?—What I want is the Minister to have the power to inspect and to use his power to protect the lives of the public and the employees; so that I shall know 'when my car is booked up continuously for a defect which is not remedied, I shall have power to report it. r 264. Mr Young .] Your experience is confined to Sydney and Auckland ?—Yes, as to working there. 6 265 You do not know personally anything about the discipline in Christehurch, Dunedin or Wellington, as an employee?— No. 266. What you know of Wellington is only from hearsay ?—Yes, and I have seen a little here. 267 You have never worked under a Board elected by the people? No. 268 Your experience has been confined to the Government tramways in Sydney and to the enterprise of a private company in Auckland ?—Yes. The trams are run by Commissioners in Sydney 269 It is a Government concern ?—Yes; but it is supervised by gentlemen independent of political control. _ _ 270. I understand your main objection is on the matter of policy—as to the control by citizens instead of by the Government?—l think laymen cannot control an electric tramway service It needs experts. 271 Then, I suppose you would not object to the control by citizens if the citizens were guided by an expert?— Yes, I should, because they are interested pecuniarily, collectively and individually. ■' J 272. Every member of Parliament is pecuniarily interested, is he not?—ln a very small way 273. You think the citizens cannot be trusted to control the system because they have some interest m it?— That is one reason. Another is that they are incapable of doing so. "