[H. W WILSON

26

I.—9a

88 You stated that the City Council has already taken steps to look after the safety of the public? In what way—by prosecuting, or what?— Take the case of stops :we have made the company make dead stops in one or two cases. That is where we considered the cars were running too fast. That is one instance. 89 Did you lengthen the* time to allow for that dead stop ?—No, because we considered the men were simply coasting down-hill—l do not want to say for the exhilaration—unnecessarily 90. Do you remember when in 1907 the men decided that they would only carry the licensed number on each car ?—Yes ; we have been trying to get that for some time. 91 Did you not amend the by-laws in the Council to allow for an increased number to be carried?—We made by-laws then for the first time to meet the circumstances of the case that had arisen. , , 92 That is to allow over the seating-number I— Yes, in certain cars, not throughout the service. . ~ 93 That is the way you improve the position of the men in deciding not to carry more than the proper number?— Not altogether At the same time we took action against the company to provide more cars. The Councillors always held very strongly that they would not allow straphangers to override the necessity for having a proper number of cars. 94. What is the number of strap-hangers allowed ?—Fourteen is the maximum. 95. Do you think that is a fair number to carry?—lt was decided upon an engineer's report. He went into the case of every car, and according to his inspection as to the seating-capacity of the car a decision was arrived at. The number is not provided for in the by-law The Council exercised this power of licensing in each individual case according to the circumstances. 96. Then I will take it that the Auckland City Council is not in favour of indiscriminate overcrowding? —No. 97 Have you noticed the lading of the cars in Wellington ?—Not on this occasion. 98. Have you at other times? —At other times I have. 99. Would the Auckland City Council allow such a system of overcrowding on cars as that to be seen in Wellington ?—No. 100. During the three months that it requires to pass these amending by-laws with regard to strap-hangers, is it not a fact that one of the City Councillors, who is now the Mayor of Auckland, was fined for refusing to leave a car when called upon to do so?—I do not remember all the circumstances, but I remember the present Mayor of Auckland was fined, or had up before the Court. , 101. Do you remember the shilling fine and costs being inflicted?—No, I cannot remember whether he was actually fined. I know he was before the Court. 102 Let me ask. you whether there has been an application for an extra stop in Wellesley Street at the intersection of Albert Street? —Yes. 103. Was that granted? —Yes. 104. Do you know the grade of Wellesley Street West? —No. 105 If I suggested that it was a grade of 1 in 16 would you contradict me?— No. 106. Do you consider it is conserving the safety of the public in instituting a stop on a grade of 1 in 16? It is serving the convenience of the public. With regard to the speed, the Council were of opinion that there was no question of safety being imperilled. 107 Did Inspector Lindsay report either for or against such a stop?—He reported against it. 108. And yet, in the face of the advice of your Inspector, who devotes nearly the whole of his time to the" tramway traffic, the Council decided in favour of the stop?— Yes; but you must remember that the Inspector is a new one, and the Tram Committee had been many years —some of them —controlling tramway matters. 109 In connection with the Appeal Board, you say practically the right of appeal is to the Council itself? —Yes, I always advise a man if he has a grievance that he has that right. 110. Has the man representation on that Council?—He goes himself There have been cases no t applying to employees —where the men have been represented by a solicitor 111 Take the case of Conductor Maples, a few weeks ago?— Yes. 112 What was he called down for? —To show cause why his license should not be cancelled for carrying over his number. There was a conflict of opinion as to the number 113' What was the verdict ? —I cannot remember the words, but the effect of it was that he was to be a good boy and not do it again. 114. Did not the Mayor say that the case was a trivial one, and should not have been reported? —I cannot remember who stated it, but it was so stated. 115. I think it was Mr Mackay? —Yes. 116. I was present at that meeting?— You certainly entered. 117 I had not right of appearance? —No. 118. But I practically forced my way in?— No. The question of your admittance was put to the committee, and the committee decided that you should be allowed in. 119. But not to put the man's case? —Yes. That is to say, the reason why the committee decided that you should not appear on his behalf was that they had the facts before them and did not want to have the proceedings prolonged. 120. What were the profits of the company last year?—l cannot tell you from memory I only know, of course, what we received. 121 You receive 5 per cent, over a certain amount? —Five per cent."up to £5,000, and 10 per cent, over that on the profits. That is, the net profits, of course. 122. What is the amount the Council received as its share last year?—£3,s92 That is on the profits only and is subject to audit.