24

[H W WILSON

I.—9a.

27 Generally speaking, do you think the working of the system in Auckland satisfactory? — Generally speaking, it is satisfactory Of course, from time to time there are details that we require improvement in. 28 You are not desirous of obtaining, at any rate, more power to strengthen your position in any demands you may make on the company?— No. Hitherto we have had sufficient power to obtain the requirements we wanted. 29. Mr O'Shea.] You have gone through the Bill and read it?— Yes, several tmies._ 30 How do you think it affects local government in New Zealand?—l consider, in the first place that it absolutely takes away from the local government many matters of purely local concern In the second place, so far as Auckland is concerned, it absolutely damages our credit by superseding the conditions of existing deeds solemnly entered into with a company domiciled in London Therefore, if we had to go to the London market for loans, there is always the possibility of our credit being assailed. In the third place, we are very much afraid, if this Bill were carried into law, similar demands might be made which might not be successfully resisted, the precedent being already established. 31 Do you refer now to the Appeal Board ? —That is one. 32. And to the certificates ?—Yes. 33 Now what, in your opinion, would be the effect of the certificates in the case ot a strike I —If it were 'limited to a certificate only, the Auckland City Council would have no particular objection; but it goes further than that. We are afraid that in the case of a strike a close union would be established, and the public service would be absolutely hung up. 34 Do you know of any one section in the community of Auckland outside ot the tramwaymen who are in favour of this Bill?—I presume the Tramway Union are in favour of particularclauses. I have no knowledge of any one else. The Liberal and Labour Federation in Auckland passed a resolution in opposition to the Bill. 35 You have read clauses 3 and 5: do you think the Auckland City Council or the_ Government is the best authority to deal with the reasonable requirements of the traffic mentioned in subclause (2) of clause 3 ?—I think that is essentially the duty of the local governing body 36. Do you think the Government is able to look after the reasonable requirements of the traffic ? —Not to the same extent as the local body 37 At present you do it as part of your ordinary every-day business?— Yes. 38 Clause 5 What have you to say about the powers contained in paragraphs (a), (0), and (c), which are taken from you and given to the Government? Do you think that will be ot advantage to any one in the Dominion?—As far as Auckland is concerned, it sets them aside, and we lose control of the traffic in the centre of our streets. _ 39 Later on the Minister proposes to take the licensing of the cars from you and give the power to himself how will that affect you?— Under our deed, in which we gave the company the right to use the streets, we derive certain payments, so that as between the company and the Uty Council we are eased to the extent of £200 per annum, this being the amount of the licensing fees payable for the cars. 40. What is the license fee for the cars?— Two pounds per car per annum. 41 And the motorman and conductor? —Five shillings per annum per man. 42' In paragraph (c) of clause 5 the Minister proposes to take power to insure the safety and convenience of the public: you have no objection, I suppose, to that, providing he does not do it too often ?—No one can take exception to the taking of power to insure the public safety by anybody The Council has taken steps in that direction already # 43. Do you think the Government or the local body is the best able to look after the interests of the public ?—I think the local body is the best. . . 44 Clause 6, the Appeal Board What would happen to your City Council s administration if you had an Appeal Board on which the chief man was appointed by the Minister?—The ultimate effect so far as the Council is concerned, would be that the discipline of the staff would almost entirely disappear At the present time the head of a department is responsible for the men employed If the men had the right to appeal to a Board he would feel absolutely hampered in carrying out his work, and consequently discipline would disappear We_ are not_ dealing with the running of the tramways, but we look upon it that, if one municipality is going to have a Board like that, there is no reason why others should not. _ _ 45. Have you any Appeal Board yourself %— Practically we have. We give every one the right to Counoil in good faith hag de i e g a ted its tramway authorizing order to the Auckland tramways Company?— That is so. 47 And is it correct that that company had to bind itself in that deed by stringent obhgatlOnB4?B7 Is Council prepared to allow those obligations to be discharged in the event of this Bill being passed?—No; that is why we appear here. 49 Do you not see that if this Bill passes, and those obligations are not discharged, there will be'two authorities controlling those tramways I—On the face of it that appears to be so But I go even further, and say that if the Order is set aside the obligations of that Order contained in the deed of delegation are also set aside. 50 You do not suggest that the tramways would then go back to the City Council?— All I suggest'is that the control of the trams passes out of the hands of the Council to_the Government 51 You told Mr A Myers, or Mr O'Shea, that your Council had been active in looking after requirements of the traffic and in keeping the company up to the mark?— That is so. 52 Do you find that the people of Auckland are apt to prod the City Council if they the people,"think that anything is required to meet the reasonable requirements of the traffic?—lhey do.